I say 'mizugami'. What say you?
Megami or Mizugami?
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
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I've got absolutely no dog in this hunt, Bill-and I'm sure you say whatever your sensei says, which is appropriate, but I'd ask what the founder, Tatsuo Shimabuku said, if I wanted the definitive answer.
OP
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Stop being reasonable; I'm trying to stir up trouble.
dancingalone
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What is the argument at hand? Perhaps you could summarize for the ignorant unwashed like me?
I do recall reading something about one of Shimabuku Sensei's students or children saying the megami actually had nothing to do with the Water Goddess? Is this related somehow, Bill?
I do recall reading something about one of Shimabuku Sensei's students or children saying the megami actually had nothing to do with the Water Goddess? Is this related somehow, Bill?
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Oh, okay then.
I say megami, for Isshinryu No Megami (一心流の女神[SUP]?[/SUP])-she's the goddess of Isshinryu, not a "water goddess," which is what mizugami means.
Angi Uezu said mizugami is wrong.Back in New York, his student, Joe Jennings says that mizugami is wrong. Eiko Taneshi said mizugami is wrong.A.J. Advincula says mizugami is wrong. Shinsho Shimabuku and Kensho Tokumura both said mizugami is wrong.
Stop saying it. :lol:
OP
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Yes, it was. So pick a side, and fight about it, please. I need an argument.
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No you don't. :lfao:
dancingalone
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<shrugs> I always used 'megami' since I became aware of Isshin-ryu karate. Hey, if you want a Isshin-ryu internet slap fight, just say something about XXX being the TRUE successor to Shimabuku Sensei. LOL
OP
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[video=youtube_share;kQFKtI6gn9Y]http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y[/video]
OP
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- #10
Well, you're wrong! Wrong wrong wrong!
XXX was NOT the true successor. YYY was! Everybody knows that!
punisher73
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How many IR people does it take to change a lightbulb? Only 1, but then everyone else stands around and says "That's not how my sensei said to do it!".
Just stirring the pot for Mr. Mattocks!
I have heard that same joke with MANY different arts.
Just stirring the pot for Mr. Mattocks!
I have heard that same joke with MANY different arts.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I say Megazord.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Mega Man
Victor Smith
Blue Belt
Words.
Originally when I bought a patch (of the Steve Armstrong line) from my instructor I'm not sure the patch was named, but if it was it was mizugami. All of the 70's and early 80's magazine articles used the term. Shimabuku Sensei was gone and didn't leave any documentation on the issue.
Then in the mid 80's Advincula Sensei, the designer of the first patch said it wasn't the Okinawan mizugami but the Isshinryu Megami. I asked my instructor and he said Advincula must be right.
On the other hand I don't believe in anybody's goddesses, nor care. I don't teach mythology to my students, nor did my instructors, (one of whom is a minister) and have no problem with either name.
Shimabuku Sensei didn't wear the patch and personally 1/2 of my gi's have it, and 1/2 of them don't, and today 1/2 of my adult classes don't wear gi anyway, so I see it as somewhat irrelevant.
As I respect everyone, but follow no one (except for my original instructors) I don't find testaments about what is right very important.
Isshinryu is one of the new generation proving Organizations could perpetuate karate as opposed to originally just instructors. But in the end Isshinryu (the generic) still comes down to the instructor and the dojo.
References as to the right Isshinryu are irrelevant.
The art takes place in the floor, regardless of the flavor.
As I've taught youth for 33 years personally if I had the money I'd have a young person design the patch, have it made up and forget the rest.
If I'm aware I'll politely call the patch whatever the listener prefers, but if asked i'd answer mizugami because I've used the term for 38+ years.
Isshinryu really is my two knuckles driving through your body.
GRIN,
Originally when I bought a patch (of the Steve Armstrong line) from my instructor I'm not sure the patch was named, but if it was it was mizugami. All of the 70's and early 80's magazine articles used the term. Shimabuku Sensei was gone and didn't leave any documentation on the issue.
Then in the mid 80's Advincula Sensei, the designer of the first patch said it wasn't the Okinawan mizugami but the Isshinryu Megami. I asked my instructor and he said Advincula must be right.
On the other hand I don't believe in anybody's goddesses, nor care. I don't teach mythology to my students, nor did my instructors, (one of whom is a minister) and have no problem with either name.
Shimabuku Sensei didn't wear the patch and personally 1/2 of my gi's have it, and 1/2 of them don't, and today 1/2 of my adult classes don't wear gi anyway, so I see it as somewhat irrelevant.
As I respect everyone, but follow no one (except for my original instructors) I don't find testaments about what is right very important.
Isshinryu is one of the new generation proving Organizations could perpetuate karate as opposed to originally just instructors. But in the end Isshinryu (the generic) still comes down to the instructor and the dojo.
References as to the right Isshinryu are irrelevant.
The art takes place in the floor, regardless of the flavor.
As I've taught youth for 33 years personally if I had the money I'd have a young person design the patch, have it made up and forget the rest.
If I'm aware I'll politely call the patch whatever the listener prefers, but if asked i'd answer mizugami because I've used the term for 38+ years.
Isshinryu really is my two knuckles driving through your body.
GRIN,
OP
- Thread Starter
- #17
I know a local Isshin-Ryu sensei (not mine) who does not wear the patch on his gi, nor do his students. He said it was a religious thing; he's a devout Christian. I personally have no problem wearing the patch or bowing to the shomen when I enter or leave the dojo. For me, it's just a sign of respect, not a form of worship.
Victor Smith
Blue Belt
Bill,
I understand the Religious issues but they're not really my point. I'm more there are much more important things behind my Isshinryu than the patch name, the patch type or the patch meaning.
I will always respect each tradition, but in the end in my dojo I only care about performance.
I understand the Religious issues but they're not really my point. I'm more there are much more important things behind my Isshinryu than the patch name, the patch type or the patch meaning.
I will always respect each tradition, but in the end in my dojo I only care about performance.
RobinTKD
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What a great quote!
Mr. Bill,
When we were at Grandmaster Mitchum's in June, My Sensei answered that question for me by asking every 1st Generation student in attendince other than Master Mitchum that queston; I had already heard his answer (it was a clear Mizu Gami, to say the least). All of the other 1st Generation students that I spoke to gave a very definate MizuGami. Some told their take on Megami not all were nice, but all were a clear Mizu Gami. As if Master Mitchum's take was not enough right.
When we were at Grandmaster Mitchum's in June, My Sensei answered that question for me by asking every 1st Generation student in attendince other than Master Mitchum that queston; I had already heard his answer (it was a clear Mizu Gami, to say the least). All of the other 1st Generation students that I spoke to gave a very definate MizuGami. Some told their take on Megami not all were nice, but all were a clear Mizu Gami. As if Master Mitchum's take was not enough right.
