Maybe Interesting... maybe not

[zepedawingchun]

Your wrist should be contacting their wrist. If you engage your partner half way up your forearm, you should be doing a tan sau or wan lan sau (fence up hand). This would depend on the kind of energy and direction your partner is giving you when you make contact. From half way (middle) up the forearm, if the pressure is going towards the elbow, you immediately turn the arm to tan sau. If the pressure is pushing towards the wrist, then you use a wan lan sau pushing with your elbow towards your partner. With wan lan sau, you might then lop sau their engaged arm hand with your other hand, then sat sau (pronounced saht or saut) with the wan lan sau hand.

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK then, I am not seeing am elbow lock, but a wrist lock it not all that hard from there. But then there is no strike like I was seeing. Basically I was looking at the application of Bong Sau incorrectly

I also just looked at a picture of Ip Chun in Bong Sau and I realized that I am lifting my shoulder to high which changes things too.

My time in Wing Chun training with a sifu was short (3, or was it 4, different occasions 2 different Sifus but never past Sil Lum Tao) however, based on what I have been finding out since I started this post I am thinking about the possibility of going back to train with one of them in 2011.

Thanks

 

[mook jong man]

Like Zepedawingchun said you should be aiming to get wrist to wrist contact , that is where you will have the most leverage.

Generally speaking if you control their wrist , you control their whole arm.

In regards to the joint locking there is a plethora of joint locking applications in the SLT form if you look hard enough.

But most of these arm and wrist locks are used in response to ourselves being grabbed , we don't really go looking to initiate a joint lock.

Besides the fact that while you are trying to apply the lock you will be probably eating punches in the face from his other hand and getting your shins smashed in with low kicks.

Tactically speaking you want to keep your arms unencumbered for striking , but if you were to try and initiate joint locks , and I do it in chi sau sometimes just for fun .

You want to quickly capture the arm or wrist and get straight to the side of him where you aren't facing all those weapons.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Mook jong man, you always hit the nail on the head with each point. Especially the response 'Besides the fact that while you are trying to apply the lock you will be probably eating punches in the face from his other hand and getting your shins smashed in with low kicks.'

It is so true.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That would depend on who is applying the lock and why.

If it was me...yup, likely I'm getting pummeled

If it was my Taiji sifu was the one applying the lock...no. But then there are relatively few that are at that level when it comes to Qinna. I have never felt a lock coming with him and I do with everyone else. I can't always stop it when I feel someone going for a lock and sometimes I can. However with my Taiji sifu, since I never feel it coming and BANG I'm locked I can never stop it. When I asked him how he does that his answer was, "you lock yourself"

 

[cwk]

for me the easiest lock transition from bong sao is simply to lap with your wu sao give a short sharp tug on his arm and a simultaneous heel kick to the knee for distraction and roll your elbow over in to an arm bar/ elbow lock.
It's not the best lock in the world as there are a lot of counters to it but if it's done quickly and smoothly it works well as a quick transitional move and helps to get control of their balance.
I sometimes like to distract them first by hitting their groin straight of the bong with a quick, snappy chey an jeung as soon as I lap sao and then roll in to the elbow lock. As soon as the lock is applied and I feel they're structure coming apart, I transition to something else. The lock is only on for a second.

 

[Domino]

Not sure what you want to learn about SLT but from bong sau in chi sau i like to lap from under the bong sau and strike.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not sure what you want to learn about SLT but from bong sau in chi sau i like to lap from under the bong sau and strike.

Actaully not applications, jsut see my first post and you will know what the thread is about. I just felt this was the best place to ask the question since it was part of what I was feeling and or thinking

 

[Vajramusti]

In my work with Sil Lum Tao I saw something, not amazing or earth shattering just something I did notice before do to my low level of understanding due to little training in Wing Chun.

This lead me to this question

In Sil Lum Tao

Bong Sau to Tan Sau to Dai Jeung am I seeing a block and lock and a strike?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Xu Sheng:
Sil "Lim"Tau. I will focus only some narrow points because understandadbly different posters are referring to different things.Not having seen it or without knowing whose version you are doing...I don't know where you see bong to tan to dai jeong. My daijeung is in the 3rd section-gan-tan-huen and then dai jeong.
Depending on length of wing chun training-lots of movements can result in strike, lock, block or break. Bong to tan or tan to bong can lead to a striking motion, a locking motion, a blocking motion or a breaking motion depending on what else is happening.
joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

 

[Xue Sheng]

--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Xu Sheng:
Sil "Lim"Tau. I will focus only some narrow points because understandadbly different posters are referring to different things.Not having seen it or without knowing whose version you are doing...I don't know where you see bong to tan to dai jeong. My daijeung is in the 3rd section-gan-tan-huen and then dai jeong.
Depending on length of wing chun training-lots of movements can result in strike, lock, block or break. Bong to tan or tan to bong can lead to a striking motion, a locking motion, a blocking motion or a breaking motion depending on what else is happening.
joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

My lineage, that is if can actually claim one, would come from Ip Ching, there is another I was in for abuot 3 classes so I tend not to count that one, but I am seeing this in the Ip Chun Video of Sil Lum Tao in the third section… I think. But I also may be using the wrong words, I will have to check

 

[Xue Sheng]

Last night was odd

Last night I tried something a little different

Ma Bu, Zhan Zhuang, Qigong of my taijiquan, taijiquan long form, Taiji Dao short form, Taiji Jian form, Sil Lum Tao and I ended up feeling like I was having an anxiety attack without the need to run. I was just jumping inside, uncomfortably so, to the point where I could not train any longer. And the Sil Lum Tao was stiff and had no power at all.

I stopped walked around a bit, took a break and later went back and did Sil Lum tao and all went well and today all is fine too. However I have not done Zhan Zhuang or the qigong of my taijiquan since last night.

 

[mograph]

Hm. Maybe next time, you could watch for that as you train.

I don't think that the feeling of anxiety comes up all of a sudden, but that it comes gradually. It might have seemed sudden because you were focused on your training. If you were aware of the increasing energy as you trained, maybe you could watch its progress and either grow accustomed to it, use it, or slow down sooner.

Just a thought ...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hm. Maybe next time, you could watch for that as you train.

I don't think that the feeling of anxiety comes up all of a sudden, but that it comes gradually. It might have seemed sudden because you were focused on your training. If you were aware of the increasing energy as you trained, maybe you could watch its progress and either grow accustomed to it, use it, or slow down sooner.

Just a thought ...

Could be, I shall pay closer attention next time

 

[Xue Sheng]

Finally got back to a point with stationary chánsīgōng where I thought I might try working on Sil Lim Tao afterwards.

Did a related warm-up, chánsīgōng, a bit of associated standing Qigong followed by Wuji and Zhan Zhuang and then…sil lum tao.

It was interesting and it did feel as if I was more relaxed and that there was more power in my strikes in the form.



However I can’t type, I have had to correct this several times to finish it