"May I honor you with my kata?"

[Bill Mattocks]

I heard this a lot at the recent tournament I attended. The competitor performing kata would step up to the judges and say something along these lines:

"Judges! My name is [insert name]! I represent [insert karate style]! I train at [insert dojo name] under [insert trainer name]! May I honor you by performing [insert name of kata]?"

OK, look. I'm no expert on competition etiquette, but this is just wrong. The competitor does not 'honor' the judges. They are 'honoring' the competitor by watching and judging his or her kata.

"May I have the honor of performing [insert kata name] for you?"

This would be far more appropriate, I think.

The idea of students honoring judges makes me shudder.

But perhaps I'm way off base here. What are your thoughts?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

seems like an odd choice of words there to me as well. We use the term "Performing"

"Judges I will be Performing Form 5, with your permission may I begin?"

the rest of the beginning is almost identical to what we say..

 

[clfsean]

I always thought it was silly to tell them what you're doing. I figured, if they're judging they should know what I'm doing. There should be enough diversity in the judging panel to recognize what is being done. Nowadays though with all the made up junk & stuff, I can see where it's necessary to identify what it is & such.

 

[Nomad]

While I think I understand what the competitors meant (that they were performing the kata as an offering or tribute to the judges), I agree that the phrasing is clumsy.

What happens if it's a bad kata? Does that mean that competitor really doesn't 'honor' the judges as much as the better competitors?

We use phrasing closer to "With your permission, I'd like to perform ______." Sometimes followed by "May I begin?"

 

[Nomad]

I always thought it was silly to tell them what you're doing. I figured, if they're judging they should know what I'm doing. There should be enough diversity in the judging panel to recognize what is being done. Nowadays though with all the made up junk & stuff, I can see where it's necessary to identify what it is & such.

Actually, this tells the judges what the kata was supposed to be. Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially if a student accidentally hybridizes the kata with another in their repertoire. Believe me, it can happen.

 

[punisher73]

I always thought it was silly to tell them what you're doing. I figured, if they're judging they should know what I'm doing. There should be enough diversity in the judging panel to recognize what is being done. Nowadays though with all the made up junk & stuff, I can see where it's necessary to identify what it is & such.

But even then, good mechanics are good mechanics. It should at least appear and highlight good stances, strikes etc.

 

[clfsean]

Actually, this tells the judges what the kata was supposed to be. Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially if a student accidentally hybridizes the kata with another in their repertoire. Believe me, it can happen.

Oh believe me... I know!!! The first time I performed in SF Chinatown, I started one set, the middle was something totally different & I ended by freestyling until I got to a common ending posture & finished quick!!!!!! Been there, done that.

I just always thought it was silly.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Actually, this tells the judges what the kata was supposed to be. Sometimes it can be hard to tell, especially if a student accidentally hybridizes the kata with another in their repertoire. Believe me, it can happen.

we sometimes give our students permission to modify a form for a tournament. When we do we require them to present as such...

"Judges I will be performing Form 5 modified, with your permission may I begin?"

this gives the judges a heads up that something will be different then normal, and also gives them an opportunity to ask any questions before clearing the student to perform.


as a judge I have a big dislike for when a student states they are going to do a form, then change that form. I will absolutely ding them on it.

performers should enter the stage, present themselves to the judges, and clearly state who they are, where they are from, and what they are doing.
by presenting themselves and letting the judges know what is going to happen it gives the judges an idea what to look at and for, to be able to look at consistencies, flaws, and signatures that might be indicitive of one school or instructor over another.

 

[clfsean]

But even then, good mechanics are good mechanics. It should at least appear and highlight good stances, strikes etc.

It should. There will always be differences between schools/lines/sect/ryu-ha, etc... but the set should be at least identified by one judge from knowledge. Mechanics & basics should outweigh differences always.

I mean, ultimately, isn't that what should be judged? Basics being chained together in a preset manner, not a performance by rote memorization?

 

[Tez3]

Kata comps I have entered usually gave you a number, no names, no school or association to try to avoid any bias by judges. You bowed onto the mat, bowed to the judges, gave the name of the kata then waited to be told to start. No alterations of katas were allowed.. it was Wado Ryu so had to be correct Wado kata.
Nomad's point of 'mixed' katas is a good one especially in Wado's Kushanku, so easy to wander off into one of the Pinans doing that one!

 

[harlan]

LOL! Not necessarily. I won first place in my division for eku for weapons. AFterwards, when the head judge congratulated me and shook my hand she said, 'Good kata. But you need to work on getting your kicks higher.'

There were no kicks in the kata. They were 'sand throws' (that I think signify possible checks).

But even then, good mechanics are good mechanics. It should at least appear and highlight good stances, strikes etc.

 

[jks9199]

That's an unusual phrasing. As others have said, typically you get some variant of "My name is... My instructors/school are... With your permission, I will perform..." Not infrequently, you get "NAME! <shouted name> SCHOOL! <shouted name> KATA! <shouted name>" Apparently, some instructors strictly ration their student's verbs...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Oh, I don't know. May I honor you with my opinion?

 

[shima]

We do:

Judges from <insert city and state here> my name is <insert name> representing <insert instructor's name and school here>. I would like to perform for you <insert kata name(s) here>. With your permission may I begin?

 

[elder999]

IOK, look. I'm no expert on competition etiquette, but this is just wrong. The competitor does not 'honor' the judges. They are 'honoring' the competitor by watching and judging his or her kata.


This would be far more appropriate, I think.

The idea of students honoring judges makes me shudder.

But perhaps I'm way off base here. What are your thoughts?

The phrasing is discordant, clumsy, and appropriate:

hon·or verb \&#712;ä-n&#601;r\
hon·oredhon·or·ing \&#712;ä-n&#601;-ri&#331;, &#712;än-ri&#331;\
transitive verb
1
a : to regard or treat (someone) with admiration and respect : to regard or treat with honor b : to give special recognition to : to confer honor on

2
a : to live up to or fulfill the terms of <honor a commitment

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The phrasing is discordant, clumsy, and appropriate:

I contend that it is still not appropriate. One may offer their honor, one may not assume that their actions do honor to another.

For example: "I offer you my honor." Not "I honor you with my offer." In polite society, one assumes the role of the honoree unless one is specifically designated to be honored. Therefore, a competitor is honored to be allowed to compete. They may offer their honor to the judges, which the judges may be honored to accept. However, the presumption is that the judges are offering their honor to the competitor by condescending to watch their presumably inferior (to the judge's own) kata and to render judgment upon it. The greater honor is that being done the competitor, even if the competitor is offering their honor to the judges.

This is particularly made clear when used in a sarcastic manner, as in a person late for work who is told "Oh, I see you have decided to honor us with your presence." One asks, "May I have the honor of your hand in marriage," or "Will you do me the honor of marrying me," rather than saying "May I honor you with my hand in marriage?"

It does, however, remind me of a ribald poem...

She offered her honor, he honored her offer.
And all night long, it was honor and offer.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I may have a different attituide on this but when I go before judges I say
My name is .......
I study at........
my instructor is..........
the form is.......
Then I begin the form. I do not ask permission to do so my permission came when I signed up and paid my fee.
As for honoring the judges I do this when I bow into the ring. They get the honor of watching me and I get the honor of doing the form in front of whom ever is watching.

 

[jks9199]

I may have a different attituide on this but when I go before judges I say
My name is .......
I study at........
my instructor is..........
the form is.......
Then I begin the form. I do not ask permission to do so my permission came when I signed up and paid my fee.
As for honoring the judges I do this when I bow into the ring. They get the honor of watching me and I get the honor of doing the form in front of whom ever is watching.

To me, the only reason for asking permission to begin is to be sure the judges are ready. There have been times that I've had to tell someone to wait a moment, because of activity behind them or because another judge had to stop aside for a moment or some other reason. It's not so much asking "permission" as asking "are you ready for me to start?"

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

To me, the only reason for asking permission to begin is to be sure the judges are ready. There have been times that I've had to tell someone to wait a moment, because of activity behind them or because another judge had to stop aside for a moment or some other reason. It's not so much asking "permission" as asking "are you ready for me to start?"

Among other things I may have not heard what they said, I may have questions about the weapon if its a weapon form, or I may ask to inspect the weapon If I think its not appropriate, or safe.
usually when I did weapons forms I presented my weapon to the judges as well. I used a staff that was extremely hard and heavy, I found once the head judge grabbed it(which they almost always will when being presented with it) they usually passed it to the others to test the weight as well. Funny how they will judge differently when they know you are using a weapon that weighs several pounds versus a hollowed out tapered plastic straw. Of course I would probably not have presented the weapon if I had used a straw either..... /shrug

 

[Tez3]

To me, the only reason for asking permission to begin is to be sure the judges are ready. There have been times that I've had to tell someone to wait a moment, because of activity behind them or because another judge had to stop aside for a moment or some other reason. It's not so much asking "permission" as asking "are you ready for me to start?"

That's the reason we waited for the judges to tell us to start.