Martial Arts Useless In Street Fights

[Andy_46]

Hi

Ok, so there are other reasons for studying martial arts (keep fit, sociable, fun etc), but surely we all hope we'll be able to defend ourselves if ever we had to.

Now obviously if someone smacked you from behind, or had a weapon your chances would be reduced, but if someone of a similar size to you started a fight with you who would win ?? ...... IMHO i'd say both could end up in a bad way.

Anyone ever been in a real street fight. I've been studying a couple of martial arts for 2 years now and am pretty good in terms of the class i'm in. However recently a new guy came into the class, got his sparring gear on and went for me big time, i'm not proud to say i responded and hit him equally as hard. We were both padded up so it didn't really hurt, the fight only lasted 60 seconds if that as the instructor stopped it, but at the end of the day i'd have called the fight a draw at best in a situation where i would previously have said i'd have knocked him senseless.

It made me realise that i'm never going to be able to take on 3 guys at once and walk away. We were both up close to each other so kicks were useless, as were blocks, basically we just punched each other as hard as possible, which also made me realise that my punch aint gonna knock a person of similar size to the floor like what happens on the TV !!!

Ok, so maybe it wasn't a real fight, but it was the closest i've ever had and completely different to when i'm jumping about tapping my mates, punching, kicking, stepping away from them and then back in to repeat the process.

 

[Brother John]

#1: TSD is a fine martial art, but in my opinion.... it's more suited to sparring situations than real combat. No offense please, but that's the way I see it.

#2: Sparring is NOT like street-fighting at all. Not even close.

#3: Train hard, Train often, Train logically, Train realistically....Make NO excuses.....
Ability should follow.

Your Brother
John

 

[TonyM.]

It's just like getting to Carnegie Hall. Practice, Practice, Practice.
I've personally seen a fifth dan in TSD take out five serious guys with no sweat. Bar fight. It can be done.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Several members of our organization have used Tae Kwon Do to defend themselves in real fights, including our Grandmaster. It can be done. It all depends on how hard and serious you train.

 

[Trix]

It's not the art, its the individual that embraces the art....
One who seeks knowledge will defeat those who know nothing of knowledge.
From TKD to Kenpo, Chinese or Japanese, what have you....
A street fight is just that, a fight in the street... a true martial artist, knows what to expect if he knows how to "lead" a man in battle... to manipulate his enemy... to what HE wants them to do....
nuff said

 

[Ceicei]

It's not the art, its the individual that embraces the art....
One who seeks knowledge will defeat those who know nothing of knowledge.
From TKD to Kenpo, Chinese or Japanese, what have you....
A street fight is just that, a fight in the street... a true martial artist, knows what to expect if he knows how to "lead" a man in battle... to manipulate his enemy... to what HE wants them to do....
nuff said

I like what you said. I've seen my share of good and not so good martial artists in many styles. It's like you say, it is not the style, but the individual that understands his style and can adjust enough to know how to fight when needed.

- Ceicei

 

[arnisador]

Tang Soo Do isn't the first art that comes to mind for self-defense. But, if trained properly it can be effective.

It's about how you train (or are trained). Take what you did with this new guy and do it every week--spar hard with someone you trust where both are trying to win. You'll learn things that'll help you.

I think the big thing you learned is the importance of aggressiveness. It can overcome a lot of training. When that adrenalin rush starts, either you're ready to handle it or you're not. It's been said that every street fight is worth 8 months of training (or a year, or whatever). There's something to be said for that.

Boxing would have helped you, right? They spar constantly, and play to win by stopping the other person. Think about it.

Keep asking these questions! You're on the path to real self-improvement.

 

[FearlessFreep]

my punch aint gonna knock a person of similar size to the floor like what happens on the TV !!!

In a recent sparring match, I punched a guy, wearing a hogu, in the mid section so hard it toppled him. He was a good 4 or 5 inches and 40 lbs more than me. I just punched well.

Sparring has similarities to a fight, and differences. If you use sparring to learn what it can teach and don't get caught by what it can't, it's a useful training tool. What it does do is put you against an independent will and intelligence that is trying to beat you and moving aggressively at full speed. It causes an adrenline/stress reaction. Learn to use that and fight through it and respond with speed and force. What it does not teach is good survivial tactics. In sparring you are scoring points for a few minutes; in a fight you want to get the guy down or away very fast. Different motivation, different meaning of 'win', different tactics. Use sparring to learn to move fast, strike hard, think clear..under pressure and the unknown. If you are worried abuot a street fight, train your [insert MA name here] to apply your [MA technique] to a tactically sensible situation.


I think the big thing you learned is the importance of aggressiveness. It can overcome a lot of training.

Yes, in that same match, the big guy came on very aggressive and it got me back and it took a bit to calm down and use my better skill to beat him. Taught me a lot about being ready, physically and mentally, for 'the big aggressive bull'

 

[dubljay]

Taught me a lot about being ready, physically and mentally, for 'the big aggressive bull'

So true FearlessFreep. A lesson that everyone needs now and then.

The following article is from Mr. LaBounty's website. It discusses Dojo fit and Incident fit. I think Mr. LaBounty adresses what you are concerned about it.

http://thesigung.com/dojo_fit.html

 

[ArtlessArt]

Personally I feel that training in just about any martial art will give an advantage in a conflict situation. Remember, any good martial artest has spent many hours doing bag work and drills, sufficive to say it should be pretty well ingrained. Makes fighting almost second nature. That being said though perhaps the best benefit would be the ability to remain calm in the midst of other peoples emotional anger. For me martial arts has definately helped me keep out of fights, because I don't want someone who's angry over something silly to get hurt...or me to get hurt either for that matter. In the time I've trainined I've seen what happens when a well placed, well executed blow hits, it's not pretty. I train to be able to hit well, hard, and as cripling as possible. I WANT THIS TO BE A LAST RESORT. The legal and emotional toll that fighting to really end a fight leads to, is not worth it.

On the other hand when it comes down to it will my training be useful? I think so, like I was trying to say in the last paragraph it's all about how you train. I train for that actual fight situation so it can be stressful, the calm in the midst of a stressful situation is what it is all about.

I like rambling with my fingers.

 

[Brother John]

I've personally seen a fifth dan in TSD take out five serious guys with no sweat. Bar fight. It can be done.

Tang Soo Do isn't the first art that comes to mind for self-defense. But, if trained properly it can be effective.

Several members of our organization have used Tae Kwon Do to defend themselves in real fights, including our Grandmaster. It can be done. It all depends on how hard and serious you train.

It's like you say, it is not the style, but the individual that understands his style

PLEASE know, I don't mean any disrespect toward TKD or TSD. Like I tell my students, "The day you underestimate a Tae Kwan Do'ist in the ring or the street is the day you taste shoe-leather and learn that legs are stronger than arms!" No doubt. I had several FUN years in Tae Kwan Do Moo Duk Kwan!!! I just meant that there are other systems that are specifically designed more for combat ability and others for sport, and some in between.

Please don't be offended. I hate offending when I don't mean too.
But......when I do mean too....... %-}

Your Brother
John

 

[Shaolinwind]

Hi

Ok, so there are other reasons for studying martial arts (keep fit, sociable, fun etc), but surely we all hope we'll be able to defend ourselves if ever we had to.

Now obviously if someone smacked you from behind, or had a weapon your chances would be reduced, but if someone of a similar size to you started a fight with you who would win ?? ...... IMHO i'd say both could end up in a bad way.

Anyone ever been in a real street fight. I've been studying a couple of martial arts for 2 years now and am pretty good in terms of the class i'm in. However recently a new guy came into the class, got his sparring gear on and went for me big time, i'm not proud to say i responded and hit him equally as hard. We were both padded up so it didn't really hurt, the fight only lasted 60 seconds if that as the instructor stopped it, but at the end of the day i'd have called the fight a draw at best in a situation where i would previously have said i'd have knocked him senseless.

It made me realise that i'm never going to be able to take on 3 guys at once and walk away. We were both up close to each other so kicks were useless, as were blocks, basically we just punched each other as hard as possible, which also made me realise that my punch aint gonna knock a person of similar size to the floor like what happens on the TV !!!

Ok, so maybe it wasn't a real fight, but it was the closest i've ever had and completely different to when i'm jumping about tapping my mates, punching, kicking, stepping away from them and then back in to repeat the process.

Don't blame the martial art. Thinking like that is only going to weaken you further if you need to defend yourself. You have everything it takes to hand someone their own butt. Having been in many fights as a young person long before I trained in any MA, I can tell you that it's largely about owning the person before you even start. Just know he's a punk, and you're a minister of death. (excuse the expression) The fight's already over!

 

[47MartialMan]

Ok, so there are other reasons for studying martial arts (keep fit, sociable, fun etc), but surely we all hope we'll be able to defend ourselves if ever we had to.

Had to-many times...also-defense isnt always about physical confrontation, much of it is mentality/wit

Now obviously if someone smacked you from behind/QUOTE]
Hmmnnn-smacked how and why?

or had a weapon your chances would be reduced

Chances for what?

, but if someone of a similar size to you started a fight with you who would win ?? ...... IMHO i'd say both could end up in a bad way.

You must be prepared to lose and face the reality that a martial artist is not invincible.

Anyone ever been in a real street fight.

Yes-many times.

I've been studying a couple of martial arts for 2 years now and am pretty good in terms of the class i'm in. However recently a new guy came into the class, got his sparring gear on and went for me big time, i'm not proud to say i responded and hit him equally as hard. We were both padded up so it didn't really hurt, the fight only lasted 60 seconds if that as the instructor stopped it, but at the end of the day i'd have called the fight a draw at best in a situation where i would previously have said i'd have knocked him senseless.

Here is a scenario-pay attention. Three guys, three different sizes, training under the same instructor, the same many years. Lets give them names for clarification-Dave, Keith, Ken

Dave can best Keith.
Keith can best Ken.
Ken can best Dave.
If Ken can best Dave-why cant he best Keith?
How can this be so?

It made me realise that i'm never going to be able to take on 3 guys at once and walk away. We were both up close to each other so kicks were useless, as were blocks, basically we just punched each other as hard as possible, which also made me realise that my punch aint gonna knock a person of similar size to the floor like what happens on the TV !!!

Your strike/punch can knock someone out if properly practiced and executed. Two- three years is hardly enough time to perfect it. One drawback-a punch is effective per how one delivers it, but thiere is another edge to this sword. The receiver may have a degree of tolerence to take it.

Ok, so maybe it wasn't a real fight, but it was the closest i've ever had and completely different to when i'm jumping about tapping my mates, punching, kicking, stepping away from them and then back in to repeat the process.

hey, but keep practicing and do not be concerend on your abilities in a real fight. You are still in a early stage.

 

[MJS]

Hi

Ok, so there are other reasons for studying martial arts (keep fit, sociable, fun etc), but surely we all hope we'll be able to defend ourselves if ever we had to.

Now obviously if someone smacked you from behind, or had a weapon your chances would be reduced, but if someone of a similar size to you started a fight with you who would win ?? ...... IMHO i'd say both could end up in a bad way.

Anyone ever been in a real street fight. I've been studying a couple of martial arts for 2 years now and am pretty good in terms of the class i'm in. However recently a new guy came into the class, got his sparring gear on and went for me big time, i'm not proud to say i responded and hit him equally as hard. We were both padded up so it didn't really hurt, the fight only lasted 60 seconds if that as the instructor stopped it, but at the end of the day i'd have called the fight a draw at best in a situation where i would previously have said i'd have knocked him senseless.

It made me realise that i'm never going to be able to take on 3 guys at once and walk away. We were both up close to each other so kicks were useless, as were blocks, basically we just punched each other as hard as possible, which also made me realise that my punch aint gonna knock a person of similar size to the floor like what happens on the TV !!!

Ok, so maybe it wasn't a real fight, but it was the closest i've ever had and completely different to when i'm jumping about tapping my mates, punching, kicking, stepping away from them and then back in to repeat the process.

I'll echo what I, as well as a few people here have already said. All arts have something to offer. All arts, if trained in the right way, can be very effective in a SD situation. You will fight the way you train. How one gears his/her training sessions can greatly effect the outcome of a real situation.

As for the sparring match that you mentioned...I'm glad that your inst. stopped the match. Its matches like that, that will often lead to someone getting hurt. This guy obviously has little to no sparring experience, and he basically wanted to attempt to prove something. This is the common attitude of beginners...jump into the ring, knowing little or nothing and try to go all out. You'll definately get better by starting off slow, getting the basics and fundamentals, instead of going in blind.

Mike

 

[VSanhodo]

It's just like getting to Carnegie Hall. Practice, Practice, Practice.


I agree, agree and agree again.

It isnt the art that you should be questioning. Better to question your skill after a situation like this than to laid up in a hospital room asking what if or worse looking at the inside of a coffin lid. Make you mistakes in school, learn from them and do what you have to do to improve your knowledge and skill.
If you want some serious sparring try Bogu Kumite it is an eye opening expierence. Go to a boxing gym, go to you rlocal high school or college and work out with the wrestling team.

Good luck

San

 

[47MartialMan]

It isnt the art that you should be questioning. Better to question your skill after a situation like this than to laid up in a hospital room asking what if or worse looking at the inside of a coffin lid. Make you mistakes in school, learn from them and do what you have to do to improve your knowledge and skill.

I agree. But perhaps we are missing some details on the whole thing. It is hard to capture the event from one point of view.

....If you want some serious sparring try Bogu Kumite

I spar high ranks like this every chance. Many injuries so we dont spar like this but every other couple of weeks.

Go to a boxing gym, go to you rlocal high school or college and work out with the wrestling team.

Yeah did that. However, these make you confine to their "rules". The workout is hard, but in reciprocal I had them workout according to my art. And it was their turn to seem like "fish-out-of-water"

 

[Yossarian75]

Looks like you learned an important lesson. All you need to do to get good at this kind of situation is train it. Get some friends from your club and spar a little harder every so often. If you think your punches could be better, practice more.

As a TSD practitioner your kicks are probably your best asset and you may be more comfortable at kicking range(I know I am), practice kicking(or whatever) someone who is trying to take your head off with punches.

Remember TSD sparring is just sparring, its not like a real fight. In a real fight you will need to be more aggressive, use your best strikes and try and hit first. TSD can be good for self defence if you train for it and with the correct mindset.

I have had to defend myself several times over the years and have found the average have a go pub drinker to be quite easy to beat. Taking on 3 guys and beating them is a tall order for anyone no matter what style or experience they have.

 

[VSanhodo]

I agree. But perhaps we are missing some details on the whole thing. It is hard to capture the event from one point of view.


Agreed, I can only comment based on the info Im given.


I spar high ranks like this every chance. Many injuries so we dont spar like this but every other couple of weeks.


I would have to ask what you are looking for from an art, what are the persons goals, objectives etc? If a new student comes in and youve been training for 2 years, I would say you need more training and perhaps look into different schools. Often new students fight like a street fighter and frankly I think thats great. Most but clearly not all schools these days teach point sparring which is far different from a street fight. I defer to whatI said before try BOGU KUMITE. Its far from your average point sparring.


Yeah did that. However, these make you confine to their "rules". The workout is hard, but in reciprocal I had them workout according to my art. And it was their turn to seem like "fish-out-of-water"

Look at other options, schools, instructors to help you. After two years you came to a draw with a new student. I would say you learned a valuable lesson. When you go to a new school or training enviroment, yep you have to follow their rules, So learn from them and learn to incorporate what they do in your art. Please understand I dont mean to be rude but I dont care if you take anyones advice here or not, its not my face getting punched and kicked.
I do wish you the best.
Take care
San

 

[arnisador]

Taking on 3 guys and beating them is a tall order for anyone no matter what style or experience they have.

Yes. Hoping to survive such an encounter by creating the opportunity to escape is a much more realistic goal.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the martial arts are likely to prepare you for a weapons attack as well.

 

[Tony]

My kung fu instructor defended himself succesfully against 3 guys outside a pub car park and he is only about 5'3, 5'4 and they were of varying sizes.