Martial arts training facility

[hoshin1600]

i know its common for people to share their space with another MA or sub rent it to a yoga teacher or something similar but has anyone thought of or actually had a facility dedicated to martial arts. i am thinking a major space of 10 thousand or 20 thousand square ft, with different martial arts available all under the same roof. what are the pros/ cons of such a set up? is it actually possible at that scale? i am in Massachusetts and i recently took my 6 year old to a gym. its a team link facility of about 7 thousand square ft and they have BJJ , Thai / boxing, along with some other stuff. Team Link Training Center | MMA - Worcester, MA
they run multiple classes at once on the floor and the space seems to small for holding three different classes at once. no change rooms, no office, bathrooms are in the next business over ( cross fit) so it got me to thinking about the feasibility of a larger space with a diverse cross section of martial arts. would it work? would they all kill each other ? what are your thoughts?

 

[Headhunter]

No reason why it couldn't work as for would they kill each other no of course not most martial artists will be respectful and honestly if they do their own thing they won't see each other. We have something similiar it's a sport facility not just martial arts it has tennis courts, squash courts, badminton, football pitches and a gym and it also has a number of martial art clubs like kenpo, bjj/ mma Muay Thai, boxing, taekwondo, aikido etc and as far as I know there haven't been any meles in the car park at high noon lol

 

[frank raud]

One of my former instructors, when he outgrew his last location, got tired of renting, and had a building put up to his specifications. At 6200 sq ft, it is smaller than what you are envisioning, but it can be done. Cooligan Martial Arts Facilities

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The gym I train at is a converted warehouse, probably at least 100,000 square feet. We have a boxing ring, two MMA cages, two large matted areas, a bunch of heavy bags, an area for weight training, an office, changing room, a couple of bathrooms, and a lounge upstairs. We offer classes in BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, and Capoeira. At any given time, we may have 3 or more classes going on simultaneously, with plenty of room for everyone.

One downside is that with the square footage and the high ceilings it's not easy to cool it effectively in the summer. Things get pretty hot.

 

[hoshin1600]

The gym I train at is a converted warehouse, probably at least 100,000 square feet. We have a boxing ring, two MMA cages, two large matted areas, a bunch of heavy bags, an area for weight training, an office, changing room, a couple of bathrooms, and a lounge upstairs. We offer classes in BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, and Capoeira. At any given time, we may have 3 or more classes going on simultaneously, with plenty of room for everyone.

One downside is that with the square footage and the high ceilings it's not easy to cool it effectively in the summer. Things get pretty hot.

sounds like a great place other than the heat. the concept i was thinking was more of a cross section of different arts where your situation sounds like a typical MMA gym. for the last 30 years the typical school in my area was about 1000 sq ft. with a single art taught. this puts a lot of pressure on the owner to get students to pay the rent. typical rent in a spot like that has been $1000. a month plus all utilities. there have been some big schools in New England. Buzz Durkins school in New Hampshire is really nice. very big and professional.
he has always had a typical enrollment of about 800 students which is hug for his area and for a single style school. there was another dojo in Brockton ma. they had a few floors with a full size boxing ring. but these size schools have never been common. i have noticed a huge tuition jump in the past 10 years so maybe that is allowing schools to have more square footage.

 

[lklawson]

i know its common for people to share their space with another MA or sub rent it to a yoga teacher or something similar but has anyone thought of or actually had a facility dedicated to martial arts. i am thinking a major space of 10 thousand or 20 thousand square ft, with different martial arts available all under the same roof. what are the pros/ cons of such a set up? is it actually possible at that scale? i am in Massachusetts and i recently took my 6 year old to a gym. its a team link facility of about 7 thousand square ft and they have BJJ , Thai / boxing, along with some other stuff. Team Link Training Center | MMA - Worcester, MA
they run multiple classes at once on the floor and the space seems to small for holding three different classes at once. no change rooms, no office, bathrooms are in the next business over ( cross fit) so it got me to thinking about the feasibility of a larger space with a diverse cross section of martial arts. would it work? would they all kill each other ? what are your thoughts?

I've seen it tried. It's a hard thing to make work. The biggest problem is that that, frankly, many martial arts, and the personalities that are attracted to them, simply don't mix. I'm sorry but having a TKD class on Tuesdays, a Kyokushin class on Wednesdays, and a Boxing class on Friday, well, they don't mix. TKD and Karate are often just a little too close to each other and will tend to draw from the same potential base of students. Boxing students will often look down their noses as TKD and 'Kerotty' and will often either belittle or try to evangelize. Yeah, I know I'm speaking in broad terms and there are a lot of exceptions. Everyone has a teacher, friend, or is him/herself a person who happily mixes Boxing or whatever with something else. You're more the exception than you may like to think.

Look around at what's out there and you end up seeing that some sets of things tend to "fit" together pretty well. Judo + Boxing. BJJ + Muay Thai. Krav + Pistol. That kinda stuff.

I'm not trying to discourage you just trying to give you a heads up to what I've seen happen in the past. As a general rule in my experience, you're going to have to try to find a umbrella of arts which either complement each other or do not overlap at all. Maybe offering Olympic Fencing, boxing, and wrestling in the same school.

It's a tough nut to crack, honestly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Danny T]

We have 6000 sq feet of training areas inside and an outside area.
3 different class rooms and a strength training area. Bath rooms, Office, Pro shop, and Front Desk area.
We have Wing Chun, Muay Thai, Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, Combat Submission Wrestling, BJJ, Shotokan Karate, MMA, Cardio Kickboxing, & Tai Chi

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've seen it tried. It's a hard thing to make work. The biggest problem is that that, frankly, many martial arts, and the personalities that are attracted to them, simply don't mix. I'm sorry but having a TKD class on Tuesdays, a Kyokushin class on Wednesdays, and a Boxing class on Friday, well, they don't mix. TKD and Karate are often just a little too close to each other and will tend to draw from the same potential base of students. Boxing students will often look down their noses as TKD and 'Kerotty' and will often either belittle or try to evangelize. Yeah, I know I'm speaking in broad terms and there are a lot of exceptions. Everyone has a teacher, friend, or is him/herself a person who happily mixes Boxing or whatever with something else. You're more the exception than you may like to think.

Look around at what's out there and you end up seeing that some sets of things tend to "fit" together pretty well. Judo + Boxing. BJJ + Muay Thai. Krav + Pistol. That kinda stuff.

I'm not trying to discourage you just trying to give you a heads up to what I've seen happen in the past. As a general rule in my experience, you're going to have to try to find a umbrella of arts which either complement each other or do not overlap at all. Maybe offering Olympic Fencing, boxing, and wrestling in the same school.

It's a tough nut to crack, honestly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I think there's an additional rough point for this type of approach. Martial arts programs are not known for their profitability, and many fold (like many other small businesses). Having an entire complex dependent upon several small businesses for income (the rent paid to the owner of the complex) is risky. That's why you tend to see large buildings that house a single business (even if that business includes more than one program), rather than a complex housing several independent businesses. If one of the instructors owns the building, they are better off (business-wise) spreading out the risk by renting to other kinds of businesses. This also reduces the localized competition, so their program probably is more profitable.

It would be fun, though.

 

[lklawson]

It would be fun, though.

I love the idea. I don't even think that it's impossible. Just really hard.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[WaterGal]

In my experience, where I am, it's not uncommon for schools to teach multiple styles, but it'll still usually be a place that's like 1500-3000 sqft that teaches one class at a time, often all by the same main instructor. So maybe one day they'll teach, like, kids beginner TKD, kids advanced TKD, adults Judo, and the next day it'll be like kids Judo, mixed belt kids TKD, adult TKD. That kind of thing.

It sounds like what you're suggesting is more like a big gym with multiple classrooms, locker rooms, etc, and lots of different things going on at the same time.

That's a pretty cool idea, and I think if you have a large population base that might work. I think there are a few reasons why it's not something you generally see, though, especially for the kind of places that teach a lot of kids. Basically..... it would be very expensive to start a place like that, especially in a family-friendly convenient location such as a shopping center. I think you'd need a lot of business savvy, and a lot of capital. In my experience, at least, martial arts schools are usually started by people who love teaching martial arts but have little business experience and not a huge amount of money.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I love the idea. I don't even think that it's impossible. Just really hard.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I think it might even be good for all involved. It would give those in TMA some other folks to play with, to help keep us honest. And it would give the MMA folks someplace to dabble in other areas of MA that don't apply in the ring.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think it might even be good for all involved. It would give those in TMA some other folks to play with, to help keep us honest. And it would give the MMA folks someplace to dabble in other areas of MA that don't apply in the ring.

Agreed. I know JP3 teaches Aikido out of a BJJ school. I'd love to give Aikido a try if a good* instructor were to start a class at our gym. We had a Kyokushin instructor trying to get a class started and I took some lessons from him, but he's been having some health issues and has kind of flaked out on keeping the classes going.

*(Emphasis on good. I've been around high-level martial artists long enough that my standards are rather higher than they were when I was younger.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agreed. I know JP3 teaches Aikido out of a BJJ school. I'd love to give Aikido a try if a good* instructor were to start a class at our gym. We had a Kyokushin instructor trying to get a class started and I took some lessons from him, but he's been having some health issues and has kind of flaked out on keeping the classes going.

*(Emphasis on good. I've been around high-level martial artists long enough that my standards are rather higher than they were when I was younger.)

Someday, I'd love to get your honest opinion of my teaching. I think I'm good, but I'm as biased as any instructor on that, and would love input and feedback from someone with wider knowledge than most of the folks I've trained with and taught.

I do think that "good" is subjective, especially with the aiki arts. Some will judge it by how "aiki" they are. Some will judge by combat effectiveness. Some by their ability to deliver skills to the complete newbie. Some by their ability to work with folks from other arts. And so forth...

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Someday, I'd love to get your honest opinion of my teaching. I think I'm good, but I'm as biased as any instructor on that, and would love input and feedback from someone with wider knowledge than most of the folks I've trained with and taught.

I do think that "good" is subjective, especially with the aiki arts. Some will judge it by how "aiki" they are. Some will judge by combat effectiveness. Some by their ability to deliver skills to the complete newbie. Some by their ability to work with folks from other arts. And so forth...

Whenever you make it to Lexington, I'll be happy to offer my opinion - as long as you provide me with honest feedback in return.

My criteria for "good" is multi-faceted. Does the person move well? Do they understand the principles of the art at a deeper level than being able to regurgitate the official verbiage? Can they use the art effectively in a fight? Do they know how to teach? Lots of different factors.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Whenever you make it to Lexington, I'll be happy to offer my opinion - as long as you provide me with honest feedback in return.

My criteria for "good" is multi-faceted. Does the person move well? Do they understand the principles of the art at a deeper level than being able to regurgitate the official verbiage? Can they use the art effectively in a fight? Do they know how to teach? Lots of different factors.

It's a deal.

 

[KangTsai]

Our gym is also a warehouse, with about 110m² of matting, a small cage and I think a 15m² ring. Changing rooms, toilets, showers and an office included. I'd say the mat fits about 30 standing people before it gets restricting. Bigger space, toilets, and showers are excellent to have always. One thing I find really great is a water cooler.

 

[hoshin1600]

This all sounds great. Now if you all would just move to central Massachusetts we could get this thing up and running.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This all sounds great. Now if you all would just move to central Massachusetts we could get this thing up and running.

Save a tiny, low-rent corner for my program.

 

[Balrog]

i know its common for people to share their space with another MA or sub rent it to a yoga teacher or something similar but has anyone thought of or actually had a facility dedicated to martial arts.

My dream - and I would have to hit the lottery big time to make it happen - is to open The High
School For The Martial Arts. Quality education to the point that colleges come and beg our students to attend and throw lots of scholarships at them. And every day, we train for two hours in Taekwondo. Students should be able to achieve 1st Degree and possibly 2nd Degree Black Belt before graduation.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My dream - and I would have to hit the lottery big time to make it happen - is to open The High
School For The Martial Arts. Quality education to the point that colleges come and beg our students to attend and throw lots of scholarships at them. And every day, we train for two hours in Taekwondo. Students should be able to achieve 1st Degree and possibly 2nd Degree Black Belt before graduation.

My wife and I have always wanted to be able to open a school dedicated to a fully integrated education, and would include martial arts in it. If you start yours, I'll help start the alternative track featuring NGA. Then we can have inter-house wars and intrigue to teach them about the history of conflict.