Martial Arts School extras

[Sylo]

I was just curious as to what sorts of extra programs your schools offer in addition to the core material.

At my school, we study Tae Kwon Do, we spar, and we test. We may do a demonstration in the Christmas Parade. But he doesn't really setup tournaments anymore. We don't have or have ever had an actual demo team. He doesn't let us know about seminars (I don't even think our instructor goes to them, or cares about going).

If I do any of these extra things. I have to do it on my own time, on my own. I'm friends with another school owner/instructor about an hr and a half away from where I live who keeps me in the know about that stuff. So I kinda of just participate with them.

Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it? It seems commonplace nowadays to see other extra programs added on. Whats your school like? all arts included.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Our school is primarily Kenpo Jitsu but also offers TKD. We help host a yearly seminar and encourage everyone to go to any in the area.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it? It seems commonplace nowadays to see other extra programs added on.

I actually would feel better studying at a school that teaches only one program. Add-on programs are fine, but you go to a school to learn a style, not sample different things.
Also, there is the tendancy for places to teach several things half-way instead of one thing really well.

AoG

 

[Kacey]

I think it depends on the school. I teach twice a week at a YMCA; sometimes I have students over to my house for extra help, and we usually have a picnic in the summer. We have demonstrations in and around the Y to advertise for more students. We have a state tournament every year - but it's at another facility; the Y's gym isn't big enough, and generally isn't available anyway. Our association holds a class for black belts every month, which rotates through several schools - we host it about every 3 months.

If I ran a school that had it's own property (either in another building or it's own building) I might do things differently - but as things stand, there's only so much we can do.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I take my students and let them know about many seminars. If they wish to attend they have my permission. We attend tournaments but I do not give one anymore ( maybe someday once again)

 

[stickarts]

We teach 3 systems, have a demo team that does a fair number of demos each year, a Blackbelt club, movie nights, buddy weeks, periodic seminars conducted by various instructors, sparring, private lessons, an inner-school tournament, and various parties and different fun events throughout the year, This keeps us more than busy.

 

[bluekey88]

Aside from periodic seminars, the only "extra" we offer is competition team. Members get extra training hours focusing primarily on fitness, conditioning and specific olympic tkd sparring technique.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

I'm a seminar junkie, and I encourage my students to be as well. I support as many seminars as my budget will allow, and I plan host my instructor yearly, and I plan to host a few more as my student base grows.

 

[Sylo]

So, most of you can agree that there is at least minor extras available at your school.

Mine has been open for over 30 years. He opened his school in the mid 70s and has been going ever since. He used to have tournaments, and he used to take his students to other schools tournaments. He doesn't do any of these things anymore.

I know alot of it has to do with him getting up in age, and the rest has to do with the quality of his students. Most are just kids whose parents have stuck them in his classes for cheap babysitting. The rest are either the parents of those kids (who have no interest in martial arts, and are only there because the kids won't stay themselve if they don't). Nothing wrong with this. But then you have people like me, who enjoy all forms and styles of martial arts. I research it, post on internet forums about it, watch movies and youtube videos about it... etc.. We are a rare breed. I know the health, and mental benefit from it. But I do it, because I enjoy martial arts. My teacher knows this, and he appreciates those types of students. But for every 1 of me.. there are 30 of the ones that show no interest.

Therefore the curriculum and everything we do gets tailored around that mindset. The training is still great, and I'm still getting taught what I am supposed to. But, there is nothing else. I went to another school.. who had movie nights, tournaments, weapons classes, MMA classes, and all sorts of "extras". Of course besides paying for these extras.. they kind of made what I went there for secondary (which was to learn a martial art). So maybe the fact that we focus on nothing but learning the art.. is not a bad thing.

My instructor is not one you can go up to and talk to about the "martial arts". He does TKD, and TKD only. His dad introduced him to Judo in his military days. But beyond that, he doesn't do or know about anything else. Which is fine. I just enjoy talking to like minded individuals about martial arts. The teacher from the other school was actually a student of my current instructor. Who broke away from TKD and tradition because he wanted to move outside of the box. He broadened his horizons, because he didn't just love TKD.. he loved martial arts in general. However, he wound up burning his former instructor over a dan testing, and completely shunned TKD (or at least its use, except for the fact that half of his system he created is obviously TKD based).

Anyway, bottom line.. is should I worry that my instructor doesn't really take an interest in "martial arts" or should I just continue doing what I am doing by getting that "side" from my other instructor friend who IS interested in ALL forms of martial arts?

 

[tko4u]

We offer Traditional taekwondo, which includes forms, 1 steps, basics, sparring, weapons, we also do demos all around town.

 

[IcemanSK]

So, most of you can agree that there is at least minor extras available at your school.

Mine has been open for over 30 years. He opened his school in the mid 70s and has been going ever since. He used to have tournaments, and he used to take his students to other schools tournaments. He doesn't do any of these things anymore.

I know alot of it has to do with him getting up in age, and the rest has to do with the quality of his students. Most are just kids whose parents have stuck them in his classes for cheap babysitting. The rest are either the parents of those kids (who have no interest in martial arts, and are only there because the kids won't stay themselve if they don't). Nothing wrong with this. But then you have people like me, who enjoy all forms and styles of martial arts. I research it, post on internet forums about it, watch movies and youtube videos about it... etc.. We are a rare breed. I know the health, and mental benefit from it. But I do it, because I enjoy martial arts. My teacher knows this, and he appreciates those types of students. But for every 1 of me.. there are 30 of the ones that show no interest.

Therefore the curriculum and everything we do gets tailored around that mindset. The training is still great, and I'm still getting taught what I am supposed to. But, there is nothing else. I went to another school.. who had movie nights, tournaments, weapons classes, MMA classes, and all sorts of "extras". Of course besides paying for these extras.. they kind of made what I went there for secondary (which was to learn a martial art). So maybe the fact that we focus on nothing but learning the art.. is not a bad thing.

My instructor is not one you can go up to and talk to about the "martial arts". He does TKD, and TKD only. His dad introduced him to Judo in his military days. But beyond that, he doesn't do or know about anything else. Which is fine. I just enjoy talking to like minded individuals about martial arts. The teacher from the other school was actually a student of my current instructor. Who broke away from TKD and tradition because he wanted to move outside of the box. He broadened his horizons, because he didn't just love TKD.. he loved martial arts in general. However, he wound up burning his former instructor over a dan testing, and completely shunned TKD (or at least its use, except for the fact that half of his system he created is obviously TKD based).

Anyway, bottom line.. is should I worry that my instructor doesn't really take an interest in "martial arts" or should I just continue doing what I am doing by getting that "side" from my other instructor friend who IS interested in ALL forms of martial arts?

I started TKD at 14 taught by a man who was a "TKD only" kind of guy. I received my 1st Dan under him at 17 & was looking at the " the greener grass" over my MA neighbor's fence. Every Art became more interesting to me than TKD. I started training at a school that taught Aikido, & Hapkido in addition to TKD. That satisfied me for a few years until I found out the guy to be less than he said he was. I then started boxing & kickboxing for many years. I still did TKD, but I hated being a TKD only guy.

Through a series of events, I was asked to teach a TKD program. For the last 3 years, I've taught only TKD. I doubt I'll teach anything else.

I wouldn't waste time wishing your TKD instructor was a different person. It sounds like this other guy has a bad taste in his mouth about the Art you train in. You know what you'll get with you're TKD instructor....TKD. That's not a bad thing from where I stand. This new guy it seems, doesn't care for your base Art. You'll learn things from him. But there's no guarantee that you'll like what you wind up with either.

 

[Fiendlover]

I was just curious as to what sorts of extra programs your schools offer in addition to the core material.

At my school, we study Tae Kwon Do, we spar, and we test. We may do a demonstration in the Christmas Parade. But he doesn't really setup tournaments anymore. We don't have or have ever had an actual demo team. He doesn't let us know about seminars (I don't even think our instructor goes to them, or cares about going).

If I do any of these extra things. I have to do it on my own time, on my own. I'm friends with another school owner/instructor about an hr and a half away from where I live who keeps me in the know about that stuff. So I kinda of just participate with them.

Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it? It seems commonplace nowadays to see other extra programs added on. Whats your school like? all arts included.

We have seminars and demo teams, tournaments, black belt club, masters club, judo classes, and kickboxing.

 

[Cirdan]

Nothing wrong with just teaching the art.

The Wado club I train at is pretty traditional. We sometimes have guest instructors and even teach aspects from other arts, but competing and attending other seminars is mildly discouraged. This allows us to keep our focus where it should be. No black belt programs but one extra (free) class a week open to advanced students.

The Ju Jutsu club I also train at is more diverse with a demo team, arranging camps with many other arts, competitions etc. Sure is fun, but mixing traditional/self defense/sport sometimes becomes a mess. Joining the MA circus also means exposing your club to the commercial and McDojo elements out there.

 

[Brian S]

I was just curious as to what sorts of extra programs your schools offer in addition to the core material.

At my school, we study Tae Kwon Do, we spar, and we test. We may do a demonstration in the Christmas Parade. But he doesn't really setup tournaments anymore. We don't have or have ever had an actual demo team. He doesn't let us know about seminars (I don't even think our instructor goes to them, or cares about going).

If I do any of these extra things. I have to do it on my own time, on my own. I'm friends with another school owner/instructor about an hr and a half away from where I live who keeps me in the know about that stuff. So I kinda of just participate with them.

Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it? It seems commonplace nowadays to see other extra programs added on. Whats your school like? all arts included.

I have found that most schools with extra activities are mcdojo's/kiddie schools. The instructor is not at fault for not having extra activities, he should be praised.

 

[Brian S]

I have found that the more extras, the further away from the art they stray.

 

[Sylo]

Yeah Like I said..

he used to have tournaments.. but that was as far as it went.

Occassionally he'll have a korean master from another school come in and help with testing, which is cool as well.

He's old school.. and I like that. I guess back when he was interested in Martial Arts.. we didn't have the stuff we have now. So it was easier for him to focus on TKD and only TKD. Which I think is a good thing.

 

[CrimsonPhoenix]

My instructors teach out of the gym in a church. We do Tae Kwon Do only, but one of the senior instructors includes some Hapkido and Judo for some of the self defense and other things for the higher ranking belts.

I know that a couple of the instructors have done one or two self defense seminars and would like to do more if they can get the word out there.

 

[bowser666]

My school offers quarterly seminars. May or may not be related to curriculum. They are usually 3-4 hours long and on a Saturday. I haven't been to one yet but I heard they are most enjoyable.

 

[Brian King]

Sylo wrote:

“Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it?”

Quick answer follows
There is a old truism that goes along the lines of “Beware the man that owns only one gun” meaning that he knows his weapon and where she points and lands especially compared to the shooter that has to own the newest weapon/holster/aiming aid etc in their endless search for the perfect weapon system.

Longer answer follows
Sylo, I am going to write some things, some impressions that I am picking up on by what you are writing. I admit that I may be completely wrong but to be honest I do not think so hence my willingness to take the time to put my thoughts on your situation as described into words.

Sylo, I think that you are seeing your situation through bent eyes. I think that your perception maybe distorted and warped. I am hoping that rather than getting defensive and closed that you might take the time to read what I am writing and give it some honest reflection and then do with it as you wish, ignoring or applying. A person has o read your posts in this thread carefully to get to the real question. Should you stick with your current instructor, who has been teaching TKD for over 30 years or should you train with one of his former students who has left the system (with some sort of bad feelings) opened a school with all kinds of extras including many additional arts.

I see you training with your friend who has bad feelings for your instructor and the instructors teachings and art and I think that his views are clouding what you are doing and seeing. Saying things like he has been teaching for over thirty years along with statements like he is not interested in martial arts is warped. No one can stay with something for over thirty years with out there being interest. I do not know if you realize just how much sacrificing running a school for that length of time tolls on a person. Can you estimate how many hours your instructor has spent on the floor teaching “just TKD”

Look I do not know you or your instructor or other instructor friend, but I think that inside you understand that something is amiss, which is why I think that you posted this thread, but I think that perhaps you are seeing symptoms and weaknesses as strengths and strengths as weaknesses and do not understand how to address and appreciate them.

There is something called loyalty and I think that your other instructor friend maybe lacking in this trait. I could be wrong but that is how it reads to me. I will tell you where I am coming from and you can decide if I may be correct or not. You say that your instructor used to have tournaments and take his students to other schools tournaments. Is your relationship with your instructor and his senior students deep enough for you to ask why the school no longer does these things? You are blaming your instructor, saying he lacks interest; he is getting old and does not know how to use modern methods of researching and viewing other martial arts. Looking inside from the outside I realize but rather than blaming your instructor for lack of tournament experiences for the students I am tempted to blame you and your fellow students, especially you of the “rare breed”. I wonder how much work that your instructor used to put into tournaments and how much work the students put into them. How was the participation? Did others like you “rare breed” step up and help with the coordination, the planning and all the other details that go into hosting a successful martial event, or did some say they would show and did not, did some just wait for the next event and not give their time and energy into promoting and championing the next event. Could your instructor just have become frustrated at the fact that the “quality students” did not step up and contribute?

You say that the training curriculum is based around those who are not as interested or driven as you are yet I wonder do you sylo and the few students like you, every time you are on the floor demonstrate that you are indeed hungry and ready for more and deeper training? Do you show this by practicing on your own, listening intently to what your instructor says, watching his every move and listening to and then applying his corrections, or do you spend an amount of your training time judging your instructor by the words of your other friend/instructor, do you make the attempt to see the value in what he is teaching or do you long for youtube clips even while training on the floor.

Sylo my friend, the students can help to drive the curriculum but that power is easily lost and wasted. Rather than fleeing to other grass is greener training and movie nights, as you might guess, I strongly argue that first you should attempt to get the training at your school. Find some like minded students, get to the class early and do some training, stay late and do some additional training. Demonstrate to your instructor that not only do you want the additional training but that you are willing to do the work to get it and not only that but you are willing to drag up the rest of the student body along with you. Give attention to those other students and slowly start to teach them how to learn and appreciate the things that you appreciate in your “old school” training. Find those that are not up to your level of interest and experience and give them of your time and excitement and be contagious.

Understand Sylo that what you see as disinterest by your instructor may not necessarily be so. It might be that your instructor has seen this all before. He had the students that wanted to learn kung-fu like Bruce and all other things were not as good, he has seen the students that only wanted to train and do kick boxing as that was real training, he has seen the students that needed to learn to be ninjas as no other training could compare, and now he is seeing the students that want to do mma or some kind of weapons work. He has seen the other schools open and importantly he has seen the other schools close and yet he is still here, showing up and teaching even after what 40 years in the arts? A student’s excitement about this youtube clip or that fighter or this martial art or that martial art could very well not only be old news to your instructor but such old news that it is boring and shallow. Show him your interest as it relates to the training that he is currently offering; ask him about his military experiences, ask about his judo and ask to feel some of it. During classes ask to feel the techniques from him and do it often.

So after all that I will finally answer your bottom line question.

“Anyway, bottom line.. is should I worry that my instructor doesn't really take an interest in "martial arts" or should I just continue doing what I am doing by getting that "side" from my other instructor friend who IS interested in ALL forms of martial arts?”

It is fine to go ahead and train with your other instructor friend who IS interested in ALL forms of martial arts if you want to but, and this will not be easy for you, each and every time he says anything at all negative about your TKD training or your instructors teaching you stop him, look him in the eyes and tell him that he is speaking about your instructor. Pay attention to the words that he uses (he may not even know that he is doing it) for instance if he demonstrates a technique but then says something like “you wont find this at your school” in a derogatory way that is the time to stop him and correct the behavior. Let him know you have boundaries, you appreciate his training but you also appreciate your instructors training and you do not need the negativity.

Sylo it is possible that I am wrong, that your current instructor is indeed a burn out, a guy that found his niche and is happy to just do enough to get by and your other instructor friend is a great guy and is honestly just trying to offer and get the best training that he can and has the character that once he realized your instructor is a burnout he decided to go on his own and get and offer the training that he believed was missing.

You decide but do so with your eyes open and with understanding and humility. Doing so helps in the future as you look back and wonder.

Good luck
Regards
Brian King


Sylo wrote:

I was just curious as to what sorts of extra programs your schools offer in addition to the core material.

At my school, we study Tae Kwon Do, we spar, and we test. We may do a demonstration in the Christmas Parade. But he doesn't really setup tournaments anymore. We don't have or have ever had an actual demo team. He doesn't let us know about seminars (I don't even think our instructor goes to them, or cares about going).

If I do any of these extra things. I have to do it on my own time, on my own. I'm friends with another school owner/instructor about an hr and a half away from where I live who keeps me in the know about that stuff. So I kinda of just participate with them.

Is it odd that my instructor just teaches TKD and thats it? It seems commonplace nowadays to see other extra programs added on. Whats your school like? all arts included.

and

“So, most of you can agree that there is at least minor extras available at your school.

Mine has been open for over 30 years. He opened his school in the mid 70s and has been going ever since. He used to have tournaments, and he used to take his students to other schools tournaments. He doesn't do any of these things anymore.

I know alot of it has to do with him getting up in age, and the rest has to do with the quality of his students. Most are just kids whose parents have stuck them in his classes for cheap babysitting. The rest are either the parents of those kids (who have no interest in martial arts, and are only there because the kids won't stay themselve if they don't). Nothing wrong with this. But then you have people like me, who enjoy all forms and styles of martial arts. I research it, post on internet forums about it, watch movies and youtube videos about it... etc.. We are a rare breed. I know the health, and mental benefit from it. But I do it, because I enjoy martial arts. My teacher knows this, and he appreciates those types of students. But for every 1 of me.. there are 30 of the ones that show no interest.

Therefore the curriculum and everything we do gets tailored around that mindset. The training is still great, and I'm still getting taught what I am supposed to. But, there is nothing else. I went to another school.. who had movie nights, tournaments, weapons classes, MMA classes, and all sorts of "extras". Of course besides paying for these extras.. they kind of made what I went there for secondary (which was to learn a martial art). So maybe the fact that we focus on nothing but learning the art.. is not a bad thing.

My instructor is not one you can go up to and talk to about the "martial arts". He does TKD, and TKD only. His dad introduced him to Judo in his military days. But beyond that, he doesn't do or know about anything else. Which is fine. I just enjoy talking to like minded individuals about martial arts. The teacher from the other school was actually a student of my current instructor. Who broke away from TKD and tradition because he wanted to move outside of the box. He broadened his horizons, because he didn't just love TKD.. he loved martial arts in general. However, he wound up burning his former instructor over a dan testing, and completely shunned TKD (or at least its use, except for the fact that half of his system he created is obviously TKD based).

Anyway, bottom line.. is should I worry that my instructor doesn't really take an interest in "martial arts" or should I just continue doing what I am doing by getting that "side" from my other instructor friend who IS interested in ALL forms of martial arts?

And

Yeah Like I said

he used to have tournaments.. but that was as far as it went.

Occassionally he'll have a korean master from another school come in and help with testing, which is cool as well.

He's old school.. and I like that. I guess back when he was interested in Martial Arts.. we didn't have the stuff we have now. So it was easier for him to focus on TKD and only TKD. Which I think is a good thing.

 

[Sylo]

Brian,

I appreciate your very informative and constructive post.

I think I might have miscommunicated slightly by what I was trying to say.

let me break it down again maybe this time with a bit more attention to detail.

-----
CURRENT SCHOOL: located in a small rural town. He is the only martial arts school for at least 40 miles. He has been open since the 70s. He has taught in basically the same way/method all this time. He's changed his prices, and there are some things he doesn't do anymore. We don't participate in tournaments, and we aren't notified of any that are going on. We don't participate in seminars, and are not notified of them. When we test, he will sometimes invite Korean masters who are lifelong friends of his to help with testings. The curriculum hasn't changed. Its still the same traditional TKD he's been teaching for the past 25+ years. He's a 5th dan, and he's a great teacher. He has a mish mash of different types of students. Most of them are kids, some of them are kids parents. Most of them don't know anything about the martial arts. There are 1 or 2 like myself, who are obssessed with anything martial arts related. We are the ones who are there 5 days a week, and we are the ones who put our heart and soul into our art. He "sees" this, and he pushes us harder because he knows what we are capable of. However, we don't do anything outside of the curriculum as is common practice these days. If I want to participate in tournaments, seminars, etc. I have to do it on my own, without any affiliation with my school. I have asked my teacher before, and he did tell me about a tournament that was going on, but didn't seem to be all that keen about supporting my going. I do believe if he had enough people that showed interest, it would change.

FORMER STUDENT SCHOOL: I actually went to this school for about 6 months. I thought I wanted something different. This school taught a mish mash of arts.. weapons, grappling. We had seminars with weapons masters, and self defense folks. We had movie nights, and there was just more to "do". But, after going there a while. He wanted me to completely drop TKD and forget about it. He had pretty much shunned it. And with all the "extra" we were doing. I didn't feel like I was learning anything. We even participated in a tournament. I missed that part of it, but it was an invitational tournament that I am sure every school in the area was invited to. I left here to go back to the school above.. because I realized that I wanted to focus on one thing, and that since I enjoyed TKD. I wasn't really interested in learning how to hit someone in the face with a brick. The instructor tried to make his instructor seem like he was this terrible person, and that he was teaching tired tripe. He actually had me believing it, all because he "failed" a belt test.

FRIEND WHO OWNS SCHOOL: This is where I think the communication issue is. The friend whom I have that has his own school, is a different person than the former student school. I actually met this friend online via a message board and I have been talking to him since. His school has a demo team, has regular tournaments, and goes to seminars. He's a really nice guy, but I live too far away to actually go to his school. So, he has me on his mailing list and invites me to everything his school has like tourneys, and seminars. He has even offered to invite my entire school. But I told him I wasn't sure if my school was even doing competing anymore.

FINAL THOUGHTS: My current teacher is great, and knows his stuff. He has years of experience. However, he's old school. I believe thats why we don't do alot of the more modern things many schools do. He doesn't really take an interest in any martial arts other than TKD, because well.. thats what he teaches! My friend, has a 3rd dan in TKD but he also studies Jiu Jitsu. I think my current instructor just never felt the need to learn anything else, so he basically just sticks to strictly TKD. Which is completely fine. The REAL question is..

Is it ok, that I participate in my friends schools tourneys/seminars? Or should I ask my instructor about doing stuff like that at our own school? Him being old school, I don't know what his reaction would be. I don't want him to think that those things are the only reasons I train. They aren't by any means. I just like to learn all I can about the martial arts in general. I would enjoy seminars, and such. If my instructor is not going to organize or let us know about them. Should I feel bad about going to them on my own time?