martial arts inside MMA/UFC

[Manny]

Hello my karateka fellowa, well I am a TKDoing but I feel very confortable here and I thinkl karate and tkd are cousins so well let's get it on..... I have seen the UFC chanel for some time and also the fights and I was wondering why fee fighters have karate o tkd or judo backgrounds, it seems that kick boxing mua thai BJJ and wrestling are the kings.

Some time back a student told me he wanted to train in a BJJ dojo cause he wanted to learn MMA and I told this teen that if he wanted to learn how to beat people then he will go to that BJJJ Dojo but that if he wanted to learn a martial art and how to defend himself then the TKD dojang is ok, however as he is a yellow belt he may confuse one with other so I advise him to : a) stay and learn TKD or B) leave and learn BJJ cause he will not do either one and that's will be confusing. Also told this teen to take things easy and focus in just one MA then train and become a black belt and then if need it he can do crosstraining.

I dream to see karate fights again or even full contact fights on TV but it seems I am a dinosaur and the only thing that is ok or in the mode is UFC.

Manny

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Firstly, there definitely are some high-level MMA competitors who have a background in karate, TKD, or judo. That isn't all they train, but it really isn't possible to reach the upper levels of MMA competition by training in just one art.

As far as why there are fewer competitors with a background in karate/tkd than muay thai or boxing and fewer competitors with a background in judo than in BJJ or wrestling, it comes down to how those arts are typically trained.

The average karate/TKD practitioner trains with less intensity, less contact, and less clinching than the average boxer or Muay Thai practitioner.
The average judoka trains almost exclusively for competition with the gi and rarely deals with strikes. In contrast, wrestlers train without the gi and BJJ includes a strong tradition of training no-gi and with strikes.

When you do find a karateka who trains with the same intensity and contact as a Thai fighter or a judoka who trains no-gi with punches, then you have someone who has a decent chance of making it in MMA.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah it is a bit sad. Things like karate bjj wrestling and so on don't get the exposure.


Part of the reason I think is there is not the pomp or ceremony attached.

I keep trying to push for a kyokashin on the undercard.

 

[Manny]

I have to admit I love the full contact fights of the 80's or even the PKA fights of that era, what I dilsike about MMA/UFC is that two people get inside a cage and beat the s....t out of each other, just to nasty and bloody for my tastes, some times and pardom me because it's my way of see this, sit down and see this fights on TV is like seen dog fightning, where the pit bulls don't stop till kill or maim the other dog.

Please forgive me but sometimes UFC is to bloody for me and the worst part is that kids are following this and really like to train MMA to fight with other kids.

The rules inside my dojang are very simple, the TKD is only for defense not to fool around playing the ninja or chocking a friend just to show how good one can be, taking the other to the ground and put the other to sleep or smashing elbows everywhere.

Sorry if my words are silly but my english is not too good to try to make me understand.

Manny

 

[K-man]

I have to admit I love the full contact fights of the 80's or even the PKA fights of that era, what I dilsike about MMA/UFC is that two people get inside a cage and beat the s....t out of each other, just to nasty and bloody for my tastes, some times and pardom me because it's my way of see this, sit down and see this fights on TV is like seen dog fightning, where the pit bulls don't stop till kill or maim the other dog.

Please forgive me but sometimes UFC is to bloody for me and the worst part is that kids are following this and really like to train MMA to fight with other kids.

The rules inside my dojang are very simple, the TKD is only for defense not to fool around playing the ninja or chocking a friend just to show how good one can be, taking the other to the ground and put the other to sleep or smashing elbows everywhere.

Sorry if my words are silly but my english is not too good to try to make me understand.

Manny

I agree wholeheartedly with you Manny. Years ago I did a bit of boxing and that was totally civilised compared to what you see in cage fighting. For me the big issue is that kids get to see UFC on Youtube and can't differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable conduct outside the ring.

I always stress to my guys that they must only use their skills in an emergency. To do otherwise is likely to see them in court.
:asian:

 

[Steve]

It certainly isn't for everyone. But, this thread is already becoming a, "Boy, aren't those MMA guys just a bunch of thugs." Can we just forego that line of discussion? It's just not true.

To a person, the guys I've met who train in MMA are really, really nice guys. They don't fight outside the ring. They typically don't drink much and don't get into trouble. Why? Think about it. The sport is so demanding that they HAVE to live clean. What you see on TUF isn't, in my experience, representative of the sport at large.

There are jerks in every single style. Just hang out in the TKD forums for a few days and you'll see plenty of threads about jerks who train in TKD. Same goes for every style.

 

[K-man]

It certainly isn't for everyone. But, this thread is already becoming a, "Boy, aren't those MMA guys just a bunch of thugs." Can we just forego that line of discussion? It's just not true.

To a person, the guys I've met who train in MMA are really, really nice guys. They don't fight outside the ring. They typically don't drink much and don't get into trouble. Why? Think about it. The sport is so demanding that they HAVE to live clean. What you see on TUF isn't, in my experience, representative of the sport at large.

There are jerks in every single style. Just hang out in the TKD forums for a few days and you'll see plenty of threads about jerks who train in TKD. Same goes for every style.

I hope that's not aimed at me. Firstly the guys at the top are professional fighters, highly skilled and properly trained. I think you would agree, their sport is very violent. I accept totally their right to do what they choose as much as any other sportsman. I make no comment as to their character save to say the only one I have met from that level is Bas Rutten and he is a really great guy.

As far as MMA goes, I have said many times it is very good martial art training because it is more complete training than is offered in most MA schools. I have no doubt, and it is my experience, that the guys training MMA are no different to those training any other form of MA except on average they are usually younger and fitter. And for the record I know no guys in any MA that fight outside the ring or dojo. I must be lucky because in all my time in MAs I haven't come across any jerks training at all. That is generally because if someone who is a jerk came along he is at a severe disadvantage and if he stays around to obtain the skills to fight he also has acquired the skills and mind set not to fight.

My comment was in response to Manny's second post and was in the context that personally it doesn't do anything for me watching guys pound the crap out of each other either. I used to love the boxing back decades ago but now I really don't watch any contests MMA or otherwise unless there is some compelling reason to do so.

What does concern me, and I acknowledge that there is little anyone can do about it, is the violent footage accessible to children. On television it is generally late night when kids are in bed but the internet had changed things dramatically.
:asian:

 

[Steve]

Yes, you and manny seemed to be headed in that "good old days when violence was civilized" direction. I agree that it is not for everyone, but considering the prevalence of dementia pugilistica, I would argue that time will tell whether mma is more or less civilized than boxing.

Cuts heal relatively quickly. Brain damage is forever. So, I question whether some blood is less civilized than pummeling a guy until he's punch drunk, then giving him a standing 8 count to stop seeing stars, so that he can take more damage. At the least, it is a matter of opinion.

And your remark people not being able to distinguish between proper behavior inside the cage or out, if directed toward people who are training in mma, is off the mark, too, at least in my experience. I might agree that fans can be dumb, but that's no different than in any sport, combat related or other wise..

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[K-man]

Yes, you and manny seemed to be headed in that "good old days when violence was civilized" direction. I agree that it is not for everyone, but considering the prevalence of dementia pugilistica, I would argue that time will tell whether mma is more or less civilized than boxing.

Cuts heal relatively quickly. Brain damage is forever. So, I question whether some blood is less civilized than pummeling a guy until he's punch drunk, then giving him a standing 8 count to stop seeing stars, so that he can take more damage. At the least, it is a matter of opinion.

And your remark people not being able to distinguish between proper behavior inside the cage or out, if directed toward people who are training in mma, is off the mark, too, at least in my experience. I might agree that fans can be dumb, but that's no different than in any sport, combat related or other wise..

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Not at all. I have changed. I boxed many years ago. I didn't have a problem then and I don't have a problem now. I don't think boxing is any more or any less civilised than MMA or any other competition.

As to concussion and ABI. It is a real problem for all contact sports, not just MAs. As I said, it is me that has changed. I don't enjoy watching it anymore. I'm not suggesting others don't watch or don't participate. I don't think it's really a matter of opinion which is worse, a bit of blood or a standing eight count. Any constant punishment to the head is not good for your later health.

My remark about behaviour outside the ring was not directed at MMA people. You didn't read what I posted ...

For me the big issue is that kids get to see UFC on Youtube and can't differentiate between acceptable and unacceptable conduct outside the ring.

Kids can't differentiate. I have never suggested it is a problem for MAs, MMA or otherwise.

Go back through any of my posts. I have never and will never suggest that MMA training is anything other than good and complete training. In a sporting context I would go even further and say that without the type of training provided by MMA you are unlikely to be successful in that type of competition.

Having said that, I will cross swords with any MA, MMA or otherwise, that posts that their training is the only way to train. I am one of many martial artists who have no desire to match it in the ring. For those who want to do that, good on them. I'm not for a second suggesting they shouldn't. I would love to have a crack at BJJ, just to massage my ground game, but at sixty five I doubt my joints would last the journey. I have enough problems already.

 

[Steve]

Not at all. I have changed. I boxed many years ago. I didn't have a problem then and I don't have a problem now. I don't think boxing is any more or any less civilised than MMA or any other competition.

As to concussion and ABI. It is a real problem for all contact sports, not just MAs. As I said, it is me that has changed. I don't enjoy watching it anymore. I'm not suggesting others don't watch or don't participate. I don't think it's really a matter of opinion which is worse, a bit of blood or a standing eight count. Any constant punishment to the head is not good for your later health.

My remark about behaviour outside the ring was not directed at MMA people. You didn't read what I posted ...

Kids can't differentiate. I have never suggested it is a problem for MAs, MMA or otherwise.

Go back through any of my posts. I have never and will never suggest that MMA training is anything other than good and complete training. In a sporting context I would go even further and say that without the type of training provided by MMA you are unlikely to be successful in that type of competition.

Having said that, I will cross swords with any MA, MMA or otherwise, that posts that their training is the only way to train. I am one of many martial artists who have no desire to match it in the ring. For those who want to do that, good on them. I'm not for a second suggesting they shouldn't. I would love to have a crack at BJJ, just to massage my ground game, but at sixty five I doubt my joints would last the journey. I have enough problems already.

Fair enough.

 

[ballen0351]

The problem with MMA right now is its the new kid on the block so every meat head that wants to kick butts go to or better yet claim to go to an MMA gym. Then act like Dbags. Guys that train seriously and regularly are just like anyone else in all styles. It's the guys that claim to train and may go once a month or may have watched a clip on YouTube of how to apply a Kimora and now think they are fighters are the problem. I don't see them too much in karate dojo anymore probably because this type of guy only looks for the newest latest and greatest. It's the same guys 15 years ago running around talking about Krav and how they are deadly and before that TKD trying to show off 360 head kicks. It comes and goes and these guys usually don't stay because it's too hard. It's now moving towards crossfit all of a sudden everyone's doing crossfire and Sparta races and tough mudders.

 

[drop bear]

It certainly isn't for everyone. But, this thread is already becoming a, "Boy, aren't those MMA guys just a bunch of thugs." Can we just forego that line of discussion? It's just not true.

To a person, the guys I've met who train in MMA are really, really nice guys. They don't fight outside the ring. They typically don't drink much and don't get into trouble. Why? Think about it. The sport is so demanding that they HAVE to live clean. What you see on TUF isn't, in my experience, representative of the sport at large.

There are jerks in every single style. Just hang out in the TKD forums for a few days and you'll see plenty of threads about jerks who train in TKD. Same goes for every style.

A professional gym will have rules about that. The weigh ins were what surprised me. Watching TV I expected animosity all this growley face.

But that is an odd exception. Most of the fighters I have seen are professional and respectful.

Our gym has a rule about that as well.

Otherwise mma is not cool. People look at it and think it is never back down with parties and girls. Instead it is hours in a seedy gym with a sweaty guy punching you in the face. Generally meat heads don't want that and go elsewhere.

 

[Steve]

A professional gym will have rules about that. The weigh ins were what surprised me. Watching TV I expected animosity all this growley face.

But that is an odd exception. Most of the fighters I have seen are professional and respectful.

Our gym has a rule about that as well.

Otherwise mma is not cool. People look at it and think it is never back down with parties and girls. Instead it is hours in a seedy gym with a sweaty guy punching you in the face. Generally meat heads don't want that and go elsewhere.

There's a difference between the spectacle of the show and the reality of the training. I'm sure it's no different in Australia, but the guys I know understand that they are expected to generate some excitement for their fights if they want to get the attention of the larger promotions. It's about getting paid and making a living.

And you're right. That's the crux of it. If you are a professional, it takes commitment. You can't booze it up, eat poorly and neglect your sleep.

We have a few rules, but they all boil down to not being an a-hole and not embarrassing the gym. Simple enough.

 

[Manny]

You will be amaced how many kids I have know that are copying the MMA fighters and using brutal blows and chokes to finish another kid just because of a brawl or school yard fight. I know about a MMA academy in the north of my country that we nt to another MMA academy for a duel because one guy was dating with a girls that was a en ex or former girl of the oyher academy or studio and that went ugly believe me.

My way of thinking is this.... if a kid wants to leaarn the last of the last then take him/her to a respetable BJJ dojo or master and that's will be fine, thi kid will learn BJJ in a safe and nice enviroment where the sensei can teach him/her values like another martial art. However let me tell you at least in my country one fellow goes to MMA seminars and then opens hiss dojo in the backyear of his hpouse and starts teaching young people some MMA moves with any values and just to take off the s... of another persons and this is dangerous.

Personaly if one of my daughters wanted to so martial arts I will enroll them in a respetable Aikido dojo or Judo Dojo and the same for karate or tkd dojang, I will never allow them to go to any of those new kid in twon studios where a punk teaches kick boxing/mua tay or MMA.

Manny

 

[K-man]

You will be amaced how many kids I have know that are copying the MMA fighters and using brutal blows and chokes to finish another kid just because of a brawl or school yard fight. I know about a MMA academy in the north of my country that we nt to another MMA academy for a duel because one guy was dating with a girls that was a en ex or former girl of the oyher academy or studio and that went ugly believe me.

My way of thinking is this.... if a kid wants to leaarn the last of the last then take him/her to a respetable BJJ dojo or master and that's will be fine, thi kid will learn BJJ in a safe and nice enviroment where the sensei can teach him/her values like another martial art. However let me tell you at least in my country one fellow goes to MMA seminars and then opens hiss dojo in the backyear of his hpouse and starts teaching young people some MMA moves with any values and just to take off the s... of another persons and this is dangerous.

Personaly if one of my daughters wanted to so martial arts I will enroll them in a respetable Aikido dojo or Judo Dojo and the same for karate or tkd dojang, I will never allow them to go to any of those new kid in twon studios where a punk teaches kick boxing/mua tay or MMA.

Manny

Manny, that might be a bit harsh. I have a number of friends who teach the 'newer' arts in a reputable way. It depends what you want to get out of it. But if your daughter wanted to learn Krav from me she will have to be 16. If your son wants to learn, it is 18. I don't want my students causing problems in schools with stuff I have taught them. Karate is different. I started teaching my grandson when he was three or four. He loves 'playing' karate which at his level is purely defensive.

I agree that unqualified people teaching can be a problem but fortunately here there aren't many about.
:asian:

 

[Grenadier]

Hello my karateka fellowa, well I am a TKDoing but I feel very confortable here and I thinkl karate and tkd are cousins so well let's get it on..... I have seen the UFC chanel for some time and also the fights and I was wondering why fee fighters have karate o tkd or judo backgrounds, it seems that kick boxing mua thai BJJ and wrestling are the kings.

With regards to MMA, it's a sport that favors arts that train more closely in accordance to the rules that they use.

Also, this sport favors those who have at least some decent level of proficiency in both striking and grappling arts. You're not going to see a pure Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner competing in mixed martial arts, just as you're not going to see a pure boxer, a pure wrestler, etc. The days of someone the likes of Royce Gracie or Dan Severn (both good champions, and both who were as pure as you could get in their respective fields) are in the past, since everyone who competes in MMA these days trains in at least one striking art and one grappling art. If you can do one, but not the other, you'll be quickly, and badly, exposed in the ring.


As to why certain arts thrive in the MMA world? There certainly are some explanations that were not covered above.

You can actually get the skill set you would need simply by training in boxing and wrestling. I've seen people with no experience become capable MMA fighters in a matter of 6 months simply by focusing on those two arts, since the learning curves for those arts are less steep than say, Karate or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Does that make them any more or less effective than others who practice Karate and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

No. It simply means that they can get a skill set that they can use and refine, in a shorter period of time. From there on out, it becomes less and less of the specific arts, and more of the training specifically for the ring.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I have met some great MMA people, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, etc. I have also met jerks in all of those systems. Jerkdom is definitely not relegated to one system over another.


Now in regards to how to be successful in the MMA ring? Train in a MMA gym with a coach or coaches who have the skill sets to get you to progress. Such as Mauy Thai, Brazilian Jiujitsu and Wrestling plus Boxing. Just look at the Ultimate Fighter house. They have a head coach plus a jiujitsu coach, wrestling coach, boxing coach or Muay Thai coach all on one team. If you want to be successful in the cage in MMA you need to have skill sets from some of these arts if not all of them. The new breed of MMA competitors certainly do at least at the highest level!

 

[drop bear]

There's a difference between the spectacle of the show and the reality of the training. I'm sure it's no different in Australia, but the guys I know understand that they are expected to generate some excitement for their fights if they want to get the attention of the larger promotions. It's about getting paid and making a living.

And you're right. That's the crux of it. If you are a professional, it takes commitment. You can't booze it up, eat poorly and neglect your sleep.

We have a few rules, but they all boil down to not being an a-hole and not embarrassing the gym. Simple enough.

Adrian pang.

Mark hunt.

Kyle noke.

Not promoting the duchebag.

Look at guys like John Jones. Exiting fighter classy guy. Gets cards people want to come and see.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gJp9cwXWbKI

Some always will play the heel but it is a hard trick to do. And I don't think it plays well to Australian audiences. Mundine as an example of playing that wrong.


Personally walk out to the music. Use the hype. Be an entertaining fighter. Be a nice guy. Will get you as afar as you need to go.

 

[drop bear]

With regards to MMA, it's a sport that favors arts that train more closely in accordance to the rules that they use.

Also, this sport favors those who have at least some decent level of proficiency in both striking and grappling arts. You're not going to see a pure Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner competing in mixed martial arts, just as you're not going to see a pure boxer, a pure wrestler, etc. The days of someone the likes of Royce Gracie or Dan Severn (both good champions, and both who were as pure as you could get in their respective fields) are in the past, since everyone who competes in MMA these days trains in at least one striking art and one grappling art. If you can do one, but not the other, you'll be quickly, and badly, exposed in the ring.


As to why certain arts thrive in the MMA world? There certainly are some explanations that were not covered above.

You can actually get the skill set you would need simply by training in boxing and wrestling. I've seen people with no experience become capable MMA fighters in a matter of 6 months simply by focusing on those two arts, since the learning curves for those arts are less steep than say, Karate or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Does that make them any more or less effective than others who practice Karate and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

No. It simply means that they can get a skill set that they can use and refine, in a shorter period of time. From there on out, it becomes less and less of the specific arts, and more of the training specifically for the ring.

We do a 12 week program. Take them off the street put them in a modified mma match. 3, 3 minute rounds. No elbows. Mostly train them in. Mma rather than a specific style.

 

[Pwen Arye]

You will be amaced how many kids I have know that are copying the MMA fighters and using brutal blows and chokes to finish another kid just because of a brawl or school yard fight. I know about a MMA academy in the north of my country that we nt to another MMA academy for a duel because one guy was dating with a girls that was a en ex or former girl of the oyher academy or studio and that went ugly believe me.

My way of thinking is this.... if a kid wants to leaarn the last of the last then take him/her to a respetable BJJ dojo or master and that's will be fine, thi kid will learn BJJ in a safe and nice enviroment where the sensei can teach him/her values like another martial art. However let me tell you at least in my country one fellow goes to MMA seminars and then opens hiss dojo in the backyear of his hpouse and starts teaching young people some MMA moves with any values and just to take off the s... of another persons and this is dangerous.

Personaly if one of my daughters wanted to so martial arts I will enroll them in a respetable Aikido dojo or Judo Dojo and the same for karate or tkd dojang, I will never allow them to go to any of those new kid in twon studios where a punk teaches kick boxing/mua tay or MMA.

Manny

Ok this seems a little bit disrespectful towards people that do MMA. TMA practitioners hate when people say that *insert art* is rubbish because *insert argument* here therfore it's bad. However those same TMA guys turn around and start talking s*** about how MMA fighters are *insert lameness here* and that mma itself is *insert biased generalization here*. I call that being a hypocrit. The crazy thing is that you TMA'ers have forgotton the kung fu wannabe's that used to watch a the saturday morning movies thinking that they can copy what they see in the show and use it on the street. Or the arrogant karate "masters" that went around trying to dojo bust because they feel they had a sense of superiority. HELLO?? COUNT DANTE ANYONE??!!! Just they other day I had kids outside of the apartment complex play fighting, but it wasn't mma, it was karate.

I also noticed that you do TKD. How would you like it if someone came on here saying that, "TKD is a bunch of scam artists that gives out blackbelts like candy, nickel and dime you for everything you have, can't fight their way out of a paper bag, have 8 yr old blackbelts running around all over the place, cheesy uniforms with a billion patches on them and do tag as sparring." See? Not so nice now is it?


Note: I have the utmost respect for TKD artist's that train properly and give their heart and soul to their art.