Martial Arts in Sci-Fi and Fantasy #13 - 0G

[skribs]

It's been a while since I posted one of these. I've really enjoyed these discussions. So far, most of my posts have focused more on the fantasy side of things, such as bards and centaurs. However, today I want to look in the other direction - 0G.

0G - or 0 Gravity - is most commonly experienced in outer space. It can be experienced in a free-fall as well, and simulated in a fluid where you have neutral buoyancy (such as water). However, for the sake of this discussion, I am going to focus on the literal application of experience 0G in space. I'm also going to focus on fights occurring inside of a space-ship, where there are floors and walls to push off of, and where there is oxygen (so the fighters are not required to wear space suits).

The three biggest changes I can see in going from Earth to 0G are:

1. You can no longer press against the ground to give extra power to your attacks
2. You can no longer use gravity to put your weight on your opponent
3. Your opponent now has a whole extra axis to move in order to escape your attacks

#1 Drawing Power
On the surface, this presents the biggest change and challenge as a fighter. The vast majority of the strikes we train are now significantly weaker. Throwing the strikes is different, because without a strong base, as you swing your arm, the rest of your body will move. Blocks and parries will send you spinning, and make it a lot harder to land combinations.

This applies to grappling and throwing as well. You can't just grab your opponent and slam him on the ground, because when you try to slam him, you're going to push yourself up as much as him down. You won't have leverage to execute your throws, because there's no gravity to lose your balance against.

Almost every strike I've ever learned, and most of the grappling concepts I've learned, require proper use of your footwork against the ground in order to execute them correctly. Even the joint locks I've learned will be hard to execute, but I'll cover that more later.

I think there are two solutions for the power problem: flying techniques, and pulling against your opponent to generate the power.

• Flying Techniques - such as the superman punch or a flying side kick - would draw power from the surface you push off of, and use your momentum to transfer that power into your opponent. The interesting thing here is that there should be relatively little loss on velocity from wherever you launch from until you strike your target, and that your target will not have many options to move away from you. I could see trying to land on walls as a priority in this type of fight, and could almost see a strategy similar to a game of pool or billiards.
• Pulling Techniques - the other option is to use the other person as gravity. Grab their collar and pull them into a punch. Grab their head and pull them into an elbow strike. Clinch up and throw knees. This also seems to be the way in which submissions (especially chokes) would be applied. It makes more sense to wrap around your opponent than it does to try and pull a limb away from them.

#2 and #3 - Pinning Your Opponent
I'm going to combine #2 and #3 into one discussion point, because there's not much I can say about pinning your opponent, that I also can't say about him being able to escape vertically. If you're a wrestler and you have an opponent pinned, it just takes a little push and you're both floating away. If you want to apply a submission like a kimura, then you can't rely on the ground to keep their body from rolling forward with the pull of their arm. If I twist your arm with a wristlock, chances are you'll start spinning in circles and not much will happen to your wrist.

I think the only possible solution here is corners - you have to have a wall to press against, and a wall to press your opponent against. This is, of course, unless you're going to pull them into the submission (like a RNC).

Discussion
What are your thoughts? Are there submissions that would be easier to do in 0G, or that wouldn't be affected by 0G? How would you modify your strikes for this environment?

 

[Buka]

I'm going to have to ponder this for a while.

But my first thought is....

 

[Deleted member 39746]

0G - or 0 Gravity - is most commonly experienced in outer space. It can be experienced in a free-fall as well, and simulated in a fluid where you have neutral buoyancy (such as water). However, for the sake of this discussion, I am going to focus on the literal application of experience 0G in space. I'm also going to focus on fights occurring inside of a space-ship, where there are floors and walls to push off of, and where there is oxygen (so the fighters are not required to wear space suits).

You forgot elevators, so if you can get a bottomless elevator shaft you can practice in that. You can also do higher gravity practice in. Really damage those joints and organs you love.



And as always my reply to this, just in a diffrent tone. SHOOT THE [EXPUNGED]!

(i would bore with a actual explination, but that sums it up nicely)

 

[jobo]

It's been a while since I posted one of these. I've really enjoyed these discussions. So far, most of my posts have focused more on the fantasy side of things, such as bards and centaurs. However, today I want to look in the other direction - 0G.

0G - or 0 Gravity - is most commonly experienced in outer space. It can be experienced in a free-fall as well, and simulated in a fluid where you have neutral buoyancy (such as water). However, for the sake of this discussion, I am going to focus on the literal application of experience 0G in space. I'm also going to focus on fights occurring inside of a space-ship, where there are floors and walls to push off of, and where there is oxygen (so the fighters are not required to wear space suits).

The three biggest changes I can see in going from Earth to 0G are:

1. You can no longer press against the ground to give extra power to your attacks
2. You can no longer use gravity to put your weight on your opponent
3. Your opponent now has a whole extra axis to move in order to escape your attacks

#1 Drawing Power
On the surface, this presents the biggest change and challenge as a fighter. The vast majority of the strikes we train are now significantly weaker. Throwing the strikes is different, because without a strong base, as you swing your arm, the rest of your body will move. Blocks and parries will send you spinning, and make it a lot harder to land combinations.

This applies to grappling and throwing as well. You can't just grab your opponent and slam him on the ground, because when you try to slam him, you're going to push yourself up as much as him down. You won't have leverage to execute your throws, because there's no gravity to lose your balance against.

Almost every strike I've ever learned, and most of the grappling concepts I've learned, require proper use of your footwork against the ground in order to execute them correctly. Even the joint locks I've learned will be hard to execute, but I'll cover that more later.

I think there are two solutions for the power problem: flying techniques, and pulling against your opponent to generate the power.

• Flying Techniques - such as the superman punch or a flying side kick - would draw power from the surface you push off of, and use your momentum to transfer that power into your opponent. The interesting thing here is that there should be relatively little loss on velocity from wherever you launch from until you strike your target, and that your target will not have many options to move away from you. I could see trying to land on walls as a priority in this type of fight, and could almost see a strategy similar to a game of pool or billiards.
• Pulling Techniques - the other option is to use the other person as gravity. Grab their collar and pull them into a punch. Grab their head and pull them into an elbow strike. Clinch up and throw knees. This also seems to be the way in which submissions (especially chokes) would be applied. It makes more sense to wrap around your opponent than it does to try and pull a limb away from them.

#2 and #3 - Pinning Your Opponent
I'm going to combine #2 and #3 into one discussion point, because there's not much I can say about pinning your opponent, that I also can't say about him being able to escape vertically. If you're a wrestler and you have an opponent pinned, it just takes a little push and you're both floating away. If you want to apply a submission like a kimura, then you can't rely on the ground to keep their body from rolling forward with the pull of their arm. If I twist your arm with a wristlock, chances are you'll start spinning in circles and not much will happen to your wrist.

I think the only possible solution here is corners - you have to have a wall to press against, and a wall to press your opponent against. This is, of course, unless you're going to pull them into the submission (like a RNC).

Discussion
What are your thoughts? Are there submissions that would be easier to do in 0G, or that wouldn't be affected by 0G? How would you modify your strikes for this environment?

??? id say fighting in 0g is borderline impossible, any force applied to you or by you, will see you and your opponent flying away from each other, consequently the force experienced by either of you will be close to zero, it would be like punching tissue paper only lighter,, very very small pieces of tissue paper, strangulation will still work, so better tighten up your ground game or mid air game

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

??? id say fighting in 0g is borderline impossible, any force applied to you or by you, will see you and your opponent flying away from each other, consequently the force experienced by either of you will be close to zero, it would be like punching tissue paper only lighter,, very very small pieces of tissue paper, strangulation will still work, so better tighten up your ground game or mid air game

Agreed. The only thing that would work is specific grappling things, and possibly smashing into a wall if it's like a 0g room with walls along the side. But I'm not sure if that would be considered 0g or not.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Agreed. The only thing that would work is specific grappling things, and possibly smashing into a wall if it's like a 0g room with walls along the side. But I'm not sure if that would be considered 0g or not.

Best i have is this: If a bording action is done (unlikely), the parties will be armed, if firearms run out, they would have a knife of some descrption or a backup etc. To which they will be used. And going from real life frogman tacics, its shoot them (other forgmen), stab them, or sever their BA or shoot their BA, or physically pull it off or choke them etc. As far as i can gather doctrine prefers just dropping explosives on them from either a ship or land, and/or placing nets and the like to deny them entry.

If we then put this into more of a Sci fi setting, artifical gravity should be appear to make the issue partially null.


The reason a bording action would be unlikely is the same way it would be done in modern naval warfare. You would in a war, just shoot at another military ship with ship weapons. And you would only board non military ships as part of a law enforcment action. Which in simple, most of the time is just civilians and they dont have any intent in murdering the sailors that just borded. (and if they fail to stop and have you, they will just sink it with a ship weapon)

The best analogy i have is a police traffic stop. a bording action is a naval traffic stop, most of the time nothing happens. Oh and its really dangerous in comaprision to a land one, especially if its opposed.



Oh and risk assesment should ensure any borders have some form of PPE on them in the form of Breathing apertus, or a form of exposure suit just in case the ships hull gets ruptured. If we are to try that the same way fire is treated on modern ships, there should be a lot of space suits and the like evrywhere if not a personal one for everyone+ communal ones.

And before people start the royal navy apprantly puts a compartively, large enthisisand focus on fire safety and cook off, from munitions compared to other countries. One week fire safety course for all sailors, breathing equipment put everywhere, ontop of the standard hoses and the like, everyone has flash suits to protect them from explosions. As far as i can gather, this is a result of the falklands war. Probbly plus several other naval disasters. So if we apply this logic to space, you see why everyone should have access to PPE in the form of vaccum suits and Breathing equipment.

Ok the last bit was a rant and my pet peeve at Sci fi in terms of space PPE.

Addendum: For my PPE rant i also forgot armour, they would obviously be armoured in case anyone shoots at them etc, so if commercial spacesuits and the like exist, it would be a compartively tougher one secuirty forces would get. As that would be part of a security forces risk assessment that somone could shoot at them, or try to stab them etc. Like they have flotation devices that fit over plate carriers for sailors on the deck, or ones attempting a boarding action. (i use sailor to include marines or any attache to a ship that would be there to perform boarding action, or tradtionally, repel one)

 

[skribs]

Agreed. The only thing that would work is specific grappling things, and possibly smashing into a wall if it's like a 0g room with walls along the side. But I'm not sure if that would be considered 0g or not.

I don't think the walls of a spaceship create gravity.

 

[jobo]

I don't think the walls of a spaceship create gravity.

well they do, just not very much

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

well they do, just not very much

Exactly. Hence me not being sure if that counts as 0g. Negligible g maybe?

 

[skribs]

Exactly. Hence me not being sure if that counts as 0g. Negligible g maybe?

Since 1G is the gravity on Earth's surface, you would have to be rounding to like the thousandth decimal or more precise not to count a simple wall as 0g.