Man Who took Down Seattle Shooter Gets Crowd-Funded Reward

[billc]

Keep in mind, most "good guys" who use guns in self-defense do it as individuals attacked by criminals where no one notices it happening...it happens every day, in every state, and in most cases the good guy never fires a shot, merely threatens to use his weapon if the attacker doesn't back off, and the attacker flees, or the good guy holds him till the police (more good guys with guns) arrive to make the actual arrest.

Since this happens thousands of times a year, they should be counted toward the good guy with a gun theory...

Also, since there are usually no bodies on the ground bleeding out, they are usually only covered in local news outlets...and a lot of times the good guy never reports them because the criminal fled the scene without a shot being fired, and so the good guy doesn't contact the police...doesn't need the hassle...

 

[Steve]

The only thing that bothers me about the direction this thread has gone is that we're talking about a young man, armed with pepper spray, who subdued an armed shooter and saved lives.

And you guys are so defensive about guns that you are actively undermining this incredible tale of heroism. "He's a hero... but..." I think that the "but" is unnecessary.

Once again, if he had carried a weapon would it have helped? There is no way of knowing either way. We know that he saved lives.

Conversely, in the situation in WalMart, there is no way of knowing whether his gun made a difference at all. He confronted the bad guys and was killed, after which the bad guys killed themselves. Did the gun make the difference? I don't know. personally, I think it was the man's bravery and his willingness to act that made the difference, and I'd like to believe that he would have done SOMETHING whether he had a gun or not. A gun is a tool. It's not the panacea of self preservation, and it doesn't replace a person's brain or his heart.

 

[wimwag]

LOL. Do you understand that arguing against points that you admit no one is making is an intentional red herring? You use terms that you clearly don't understand. Throwing a term like straw man around when you obviously don't know what it means makes it hard to have a good conversation.

My play book is to just hold the mirror up for you. You do all the work yourself.

I remember a thread a while back about guns and such. I get the idea that for cops, martials arts are for when the gun is empty. I can appreciate the difference. But, for anyone who trains in a martial art style specifically for self defense, isn't this validation that there is some value to it? What I mean is, this guy planned for an emergency. He was prepared. And it worked. I don't know whether he has formal martial arts training or not, but he certainly thought about what he would do in an emergency, and his preparation kicked in.

I understand that, in some cases, being armed with a pistol is an advantage. But, not always. As I mentioned earlier, there are times when people who are carrying do not even draw their weapons, or may not fire a round. The gun is a tool.

And, conversely, we are not helpless without them.

I understand perfectly what a straw man is. Do you? I'm just calling it like I see it. You're anti gun. In a thread about how people paid for a guys wedding as a way to say thanks, you chose to rail about how he was "unarmed.". Nice try. 2/10. Your troll fu is weak.

 

[arnisador]

I remember a thread a while back about guns and such. I get the idea that for cops, martials arts are for when the gun is empty.

I think we can put this in a much broader context--jujutsu for samurai and similar grappling methods used in Europe were to aid in sword-fighting or as a last-chance hope if disarmed or taken unawares. The weapon has always been king. But at any given time, there have been many types of weapons in play--swords, spears, archers--because each is best-suited for some situations.

But, for anyone who trains in a martial art style specifically for self defense, isn't this validation that there is some value to it?

Exactly. Given the alleged nature of this site, seeing someone win with a less-than-lethal, close-range weapon and empty hands should give us something to talk about!