Man tried to hire prostitute for his son, 14

[Cryozombie]

When I was 14 I would have appreciated it, AND I dont think I would have felt raped.

Now in my 30's... I think I still would have appreciated it, but I dont think I missed anything by NOT having that experience.

And thats not me making light of anything.

Now... If ANDY comes to Chicago, I'm taking HIM to a prostitute, and Im not letting him say no.

And that IS me making light of things.

 

[tellner]

Coincidentally, there's a very interesting article in Salon that touches on this...

The virginity fetish Why is our culture so obsessed with girls' chastity? Author Jessica Valenti talks about how purity balls and "barely legal" porn both feed the same idea: That a woman's worth is between her legs.



...


You start the book by announcing that virginity … doesn't actually exist.
I did not know this [before I wrote the book]. I interviewed a woman named Hanne Blank, who wrote this great book called "Virgin: The Untouched History." She ran a Web site for teens about sex called Scarleteen, and the question she got most often from teenagers was, “I did such and such, am I still a virgin?” She was like, “You know, I don't know!” So, she went to the Harvard Medical School library to try to find a standard definition for virginity, and she couldn't find one. Apparently, there is no medical definition at all.

 

[MA-Caver]

As one who lost his virginity at 14 I shouldn't complain but the arguments for/against are interesting enough in of by themselves.

Only a few had called it child rape. Even if paid for it's still underaged sex. Had this been a girl I think there would be a greater outcry on this. But since it's a boy coming into his sexual awakening there doesn't seem to be a big of a problem with it. Funny how that works.

There is an appropriate age for a young person (boy or girl) to experience their first sexual encounter. It should be at the age when they're a bit more emotionally capable of handling it... if not necessarily (emotionally) experienced. Still at 14 I am now (at 47) realizing that is still too young... seriously.
Also while with a paid experienced prostitute it can give the wrong impression of sex. In my own personal experience, prostitutes are willing to endure just about any ole thing their johns throw at them. The young man may think... well, give the girl money and she'll have sex. Depending upon his disposition he may get angry at his first refusal. The girl may be highly offended at being offered money in exchange for sex and react in a strong negative manner and turn the young man off or (again) anger him to the point of violence.
Extremes here of course but given the news that we've read and discussed here before we know it's likely.
It could also send him in a reverse course and some prostitutes can be rough, verbally or even physically and the young man finds himself un-attracted to women.
Maybe the awkward fumblings in the back of dad's car aren't the best first time experiences but doing it with someone you THINK you're in love with can make it a (pleasant) and memorable one... it was for me. But I think the time I had in college were better.

Either way... Culturally things are as they have been. I've an immigrant friend who told me that in Italy it's normal for the brother of the groom (if any) to deflower his bride to ensure that she was indeed a virgin and that she blood spotted sheets were hung out the next morning for all to see as proof of her pre-marital chasity.

All those various customs mentioned and some that haven't been are still relatively tame compared to the muslim tradition of circumcising females.

But the subject is about the appropriateness of a father's actions for his young son. I'm still not a father (yet) and am not wholly sure if I would even encourage such actions. A part of me would advise to wait until marriage and another part would find it hard to be angry if I found out my boy lost his at 15 or 16 or older. At 14...to 16 there would be the long talk but no recriminations, yet no praise for it either. Just an understanding of the seriousness of the chosen course of action. Older than 16... well, a short talk about playing it safe in all regards.

 

[myusername]

Being a drugs worker I must admit to having some biaised views about this. A lot of my female patients have been or are active sex workers. Most of them come from a history of child sexual abuse and/or are involved in abusive relationships with a male pimping them out. All of them only sex work out of desperation or a desire to self harm. Obviously as they are my patients, the sex workers I know all have drug addictions. They are frequently attacked, raped and abused on the street.

My views are certainly coloured by my experiences of working with these vulnerable people so I apologise if I come over a bit opinionated. But I feel that the issue here is not at what age a young man should lose his virginity but what sort of father is he to teach his son that it is OK to exploit these women's desperate situation for sexual pleasure. He is teaching his son to disrespect and abuse women.

The man did not go to some high class escort agency for his son, he roamed the streets and was prepared to offer £20! He targeted the most vulnerable of sex workers, the ones who stand on street corners in the red light district. Personally, I would not condone his actions if he did go to a high class escort agency as a lot of women are trapped into escort work through human trafficking, but what I am saying is, is that he did not even try and find a sex worker that wasn't being abused.

Disgusting.

 

[elder999]

Being a drugs worker I must admit to having some biaised views about this. A lot of my female patients have been or are active sex workers. Most of them come from a history of child sexual abuse and/or are involved in abusive relationships with a male pimping them out. All of them only sex work out of desperation or a desire to self harm. Obviously as they are my patients, the sex workers I know all have drug addictions. They are frequently attacked, raped and abused on the street.

My views are certainly coloured by my experiences of working with these vulnerable people so I apologise if I come over a bit opinionated. But I feel that the issue here is not at what age a young man should lose his virginity but what sort of father is he to teach his son that it is OK to exploit these women's desperate situation for sexual pleasure. He is teaching his son to disrespect and abuse women.

The man did not go to some high class escort agency for his son, he roamed the streets and was prepared to offer £20! He targeted the most vulnerable of sex workers, the ones who stand on street corners in the red light district. Personally, I would not condone his actions if he did go to a high class escort agency as a lot of women are trapped into escort work through human trafficking, but what I am saying is, is that he did not even try and find a sex worker that wasn't being abused.

Disgusting.

So, you touch on a part of my personal philosphy-not necessarily a valid one-and a bit of my own, somewhat more sordid than most would believe, past. Fact of the matter is, I'm of the opinion that every male should have at least one experience of paying for sex-there's a valuable lesson involved, for those that can discern it: you get what you pay for.. In my past, I've been lucky (?) enough to patronize the "high class escort agency," usually as part of a package deal to Vegas or someplace like that, and often at the behest of some of my friends-we'd travel someplace for the weekend, and have ready made "dates" waiting for us. Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned: lowest paid most exploited, or high class escort (as in more than $5000 for the weekend back in 1980) you get what you pay for......
......and it ain't necessarily what you want.

 

[Twin Fist]

I wish we would wise up and legalize protitution already. take thepimps out of the formula, let women decide for themselves I say

 

[MA-Caver]

I wish we would wise up and legalize protitution already. take thepimps out of the formula, let women decide for themselves I say

Pimps will usually be "behind the scenes" even if it were legal. Unless the government were to provide protection and the pimps that are ratted out by their girls are given harsh (read: long) sentences then it might save a few. But then gangs are also responsible for a portion of the prostitution that is going on these days... how big of a % they're involved in I don't know but I've seen programs where "sex-workers" are out there via gangs, this includes street and motorcycle types, then you have age old organized crime as well.

Asking to legalize prostitution is the same as legalizing drugs. IMO it's not the way this country should go.

 

[jarrod]

a mom who takes her adult virgin son not just to a prostitute, but the bunny ranch, is the best mom ever. i stand by my statement.

jf

 

[Sukerkin]

Pimps will usually be "behind the scenes" even if it were legal.

This is sadly very true. Even in Holland, where the business is a much less 'sordid' affair than it is in many places, it not being against the law, there are still problems with illegal organisations making money from exploiting the girls and women.

That is the sticking point for me i.e. that, if a woman wishes to utilise her assets in such an enterprise, then she should be free to but the criminal elements make such an 'open minded' viewpoint very problematic. I would like to imagine that making something 'legal' would result in the nastiness inherent in the business being lessened but I fear that such a rose-coloured-glasses view would be a false one.

As to the OP, I can see the logic in the fathers mind that lead to the reported story but it was not a sensible thing to do in a country where prostitution is illegal and the boy is also legally underage. Morally I think he was wrong to do so as well but then again I am a straight-laced Englishman .

 

[Ramirez]

Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned: lowest paid most exploited, or high class escort (as in more than $5000 for the weekend back in 1980) you get what you pay for......
......and it ain't necessarily what you want.

Wow....using a 2.5% inflation rate, that is $10,000 in 2009 dollars. I find it hard to believe you had any experience worth that kind of money.

Out of interest, why didn't you just fly to Amsterdam or Rio, it likely would have been cheaper and you could have at least done some tourism while you were there? I mean real tourism, not sex tourism.

 

[stone_dragone]

On the other hand, in my family I started a little custom whereby I demonstrated condom use for my son (with a banana!!), made sure he had enough of them, taught him that "No' means "NO", and not only that, STOP! usually and, that if he did "STOP", the girl would probably try to make it pretty clear when it didn't mean that. Also told him that there was no rush, even though it probably felt like there was.......

How dare you be a ... what is it called... a GOOD PARENT? By taking responsibility for your son's education and future conduct, you completely invalidate the requirement for an already overtaxed educational system to do what fathers have done for ages.

Well done, sir!

 

[elder999]

Wow....using a 2.5% inflation rate, that is $10,000 in 2009 dollars. I find it hard to believe you had any experience worth that kind of money.

Out of interest, why didn't you just fly to Amsterdam or Rio, it likely would have been cheaper and you could have at least done some tourism while you were there? I mean real tourism, not sex tourism.

Well, I didn't pay for it, my hosts did. I wasn't going to Amsterdam or Rio, I was going to Las Vegas to play poker, and the girls were....well, for lack of a better word, furniture provided as part of the package.

 

[blindsage]

Had this been a girl I think there would be a greater outcry on this. But since it's a boy coming into his sexual awakening there doesn't seem to be a big of a problem with it. Funny how that works.

Exactly my thought.

All those various customs mentioned and some that haven't been are still relatively tame compared to the muslim tradition of circumcising females.

Female circumcision is not a Muslim tradition. It is a cultural tradition in some parts of the world, some of them Muslim. It is not in the teachings of Islam.

 

[Deaf Smith]

And tell me, if the son got herpes from the prostitute what would the father say? Or if he contracted Gonorrhea, or syphilis, or worse? All cause he wanted the kid to bust his cherry with a whore?

Or if the kid fell in love with the prostitute.

How sad.

Now there is a lot of free you-know-what-I-mean in the US as well as most of the world, and it’s not all that common for people, men or women, to wait till marriage for that. But, it's not that bad an idea either.

Deaf

 

[Omar B]

I'm sure he would have made sure they did it in a safe way with protection.

 

[elder999]

I'm sure he would have made sure they did it in a safe way with protection.

Well, I'm not, but you would think that was part of the "lesson."


.....along with not getting arrested! :lfao:

 

[Gordon Nore]

But the subject is about the appropriateness of a father's actions for his young son. I'm still not a father (yet) and am not wholly sure if I would even encourage such actions. A part of me would advise to wait until marriage and another part would find it hard to be angry if I found out my boy lost his at 15 or 16 or older. At 14...to 16 there would be the long talk but no recriminations, yet no praise for it either. Just an understanding of the seriousness of the chosen course of action. Older than 16... well, a short talk about playing it safe in all regards.

Whether or not dad's actions were appropriate -- and I don't think they were -- the boy is only fourteen. Being a fourteen year old virgin is hardly concerning. I would certainly agree with a parent educating a child about pregnancy, STD, and family expectations by this age, if not sooner.

 

[tellner]

It's funny when you think about it.

Most of us here think that martial arts are a great thing to teach to kids. We take them to classes several times a week, cart them to tournaments, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on instruction, costumes and equipment. We're happy that they've perfected hundreds of tactics which would cause death or crippling injury if they were done without restraint; at least that's the fantasy.

Think about it. How many of us regularly smash or slice people into mush with archaic weapons? How many of us get into a couple fights a week? How often do we apply the specific skills taught in the dojo? For the overwhelming majority of us not too bloody often.

Most of us with long term partners have sex a couple times a week. It's how we forge and reinforce our closest life-long connections. Being a good lover in and out of bed is infinitely more important to our happiness and well being than wearing a big ribbon that announces we are qualified to beat people up. We can get the big ribbon at any strip-mall. We're expected to magically figure sex out by trial and error with no instruction beyond a laundry list of all the terrible things that can go wrong.

Millions for pain. Nothing for pleasure. Praise for someone who teaches kids how to cause suffering and death (under socially approved conditions only, to be sure). But there's no place for teaching young people how to give joy and pleasure.

It's not just absurd. It's really pretty disgusting when you get right down to it.

 

[Makalakumu]

It's funny when you think about it.

Most of us here think that martial arts are a great thing to teach to kids. We take them to classes several times a week, cart them to tournaments, spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on instruction, costumes and equipment. We're happy that they've perfected hundreds of tactics which would cause death or crippling injury if they were done without restraint; at least that's the fantasy.

Think about it. How many of us regularly smash or slice people into mush with archaic weapons? How many of us get into a couple fights a week? How often do we apply the specific skills taught in the dojo? For the overwhelming majority of us not too bloody often.

Most of us with long term partners have sex a couple times a week. It's how we forge and reinforce our closest life-long connections. Being a good lover in and out of bed is infinitely more important to our happiness and well being than wearing a big ribbon that announces we are qualified to beat people up. We can get the big ribbon at any strip-mall. We're expected to magically figure sex out by trial and error with no instruction beyond a laundry list of all the terrible things that can go wrong.

Millions for pain. Nothing for pleasure. Praise for someone who teaches kids how to cause suffering and death (under socially approved conditions only, to be sure). But there's no place for teaching young people how to give joy and pleasure.

It's not just absurd. It's really pretty disgusting when you get right down to it.

I was thinking that same thing. This is just a cultural hang up.

I'm really surprised at how many people have come out and said something supportive of this guy. I think that says that things are changing.

Personally, Tellner, I rather **** then fight any day of the week. When I can choose to do that in a strip mall and get a fancy trinket for developing my coital skills, I'll consider our society sufficiently reformed.

Yeah, that kind of redefines McDojo! LOL!!!

 

[myusername]

I'm really surprised at how many people have come out and said something supportive of this guy. I think that says that things are changing.

To be completely honest so am I! The difference is that it concerns me, I think that some people on this thread have a hollywood "Pretty Woman" view of sex workers that is far from the reality.

I am not a prude, to me this is not an issue of sex, open mindedness or virginity but to me it is an issue of the growing acceptability of the exploitation of vulnerable women! The women working the streets of the UK are frequently victims of child sexual abuse, have drug addictions, involved in human trafficking and are involved with an abusive male pimp.

The judge did a great dis-service to justice by not throwing the book at this man.