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The one thing that everyone is forgetting is, regardless of his style (it is mostly Shotokan by the way) is that Machida has been doing his art since the age of 2. Now I know most of you may think so what, but that make a big difference. Someone that starts at 15 or even older as many in MMA have done, will be hard pressed to get as good at a TMA art as someone that started at 2.
His body has been growing and developing along with his art so his muscle memory is beyond anything some 20 year old can develop in 10 years, let alone a few years then get into the ring.
Machida is a classic TMA fighter in the ring. He relies so much on timing and distance as do other but he is far above most everyone else. His distance management is off the charts. Distance management is single most thing that is so hard to teach. Boxers work on this the most. In BJJ and wrestling and any grapple art you try to close the distance by any means so you don't work on striking distance as much.
So by being a Shotokan Karate master and his BJJ background he is as complete a fighter as you can get. He did not learn a hybrid style but rather learned two classic styles and is able to use either when needed. A true Mixed Martial Artist.
As said before. It's not the style that is going to win your fight, it's your added flavour that will be decisive.
You keep asking about arts being street effective, but in your life story you state that you have X years of experience in different arts and X years of backyard bare knuckled fighting. Then you should know a bit about SD by now, no?
Bottomline: don't believe every hype and don't look up to hard. Otherwise you'll forget to strive to such a level.
I would have to agree with you. He most likely came up old school. Training was taken very seriously.Good points. Regarding the underlined part....yes, another good point, but it'd be interesting to know if his training at 2, was like you see today, with the dojos filled with 2yr olds running around like they were on a playground. See, IMO, thats the #1 difference between then and now...back then the BS game playing probably wasn't allowed. If I had to wager a guess, given the quality of fighter that he is today, I'd be inclined to say that his training was taken much more seriously.
With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style. Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.
With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style. Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.
creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.
With all due respect, the user in question is starting to remind me very much of the user Destroyer Style. Young kid, big heart, and desire to train, but has little experience in the RW, aruges with those that have been training longer, creates a mish-mash of things, in hopes that this jumble of stuff will actually work.
There's no point in contradicting this post, as there is no sufficient evidence that will work against what I just said.
It might help if your facts were correct...
Bruce Lee was incredibly talented, and awesomely hard working -- but there's very little direct documentation about his actual ability to fight.
You're picking three actors, and you seem to be mistaking the world of movie violence with real violence.
I won't 'listen' because there's nothing to listen to! I'm not getting any answers, and yes, there is always an answer, you of little faith.You're right though -- there's no arguing with you, because you don't want to listen. You want some sort of easy answer that just doesn't exist. And it's clear you've already made up your mind, anyway, and just want some sort of agreement or confirmation.
(By the way, I've been training longer than you've been alive.
My stepfather was a cop, SWAT, and county SRT for over 20 years. He's retired now. The man has also mastered the art of Tae Kwon Do, are you about to say that TKD is ineffective?I'm working cop, though I'll openly admit that I'm not in the roughest and toughest of areas.)
Let me strongly suggest some reading for you (in no particular order):
Dave Grossman:
On Killing
On Combat
Forrest Morgan:Living the Martial Way: A Manual For the Modern Warrior
Rory Miller:
Meditations on Violence: A Comparison of Martial Arts & Real World Violence
Gavin De Becker:
The Gift of Fear
Kenneth R. Murray:
Training at the Speed of Life
Tell me where I am wrong, correct me. SHOW me. Be my guest
I have never heard of Jackie Chan fighting against Bruce Lee. Jackie is an actor, first and foremost. Bruce we'll deal with in a second.
So IGNORANCE CALLS! You're saying that Bruce Lee didn't have an ability to fight? The man literally tortured himself! He designed his own machine that would shock the p*ss out of him if he wasn't fast enough on his strikes. I have every way to back up MY argument. Do you?
Bruce Lee was much more than an "actor", he was a true martial artist.
AGAIN, he started training in WING CHUN at age 13.
No, we're not saying that Bruce couldn't fight. But you seem to have a very warped idea. Bruce had a machine that would send electrical impulses to increase muscle development, nothing to do with striking fast enough... But his combative techniques were different to what was in his movies, you know.
The only real reason Bruce Lee was introduced into Hollywood is because of Ed Parker, and if you don't know who that is, he designed the "Ed Parker's American Kenpo" system.
Insult his system, and you're doing just as good as lighting a fuse of TNT on this forum.
Okay, you have been here a few weeks at best, yeah? Bad choice of words, bad target, badly misinterpreted take on JKS's post. You have no real idea yet how this forum works from the sound of things, and if this keeps up, don't be surprised if you get bounced pretty quickly...
So argue with that, McSensei. I don't know who you are, where you come from, or what you've done; and personally, if you're not a moderator on this forum, then I could care less, with all due respect.
Well, JKS is VERY well known here, and is one of the most senior moderators on the forum... playing with fire, kid.
Chuck Norris, another real martial artist, has been training and has been tournament fighting long before he was an actor. Just check out his bio.
Dude, we know these guys. Still doesn't change the fact that you chose actors.
Jackie Chan, not proficient in real violence??? Do you know the first thing about his martial arts training?
As I've listed, he's trained in many different styles, including Wing Chun, Tong Long, Bak Mei, Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, Hapkido, Boxing, Judo, Taekwondo, and Hei Long.. Just because he's an actor, doesn't mean that he couldn't kick both of our ***'s.
I met Jackie when he was in Melbourne filming a number of years ago... I don't know, I could take him! But again, this is not the point! The point is that you chose actors, and that shows us something about how your mind works. Take it on board.
You're saying that these three 'actors' were not professional, very skilled, masters of the martial arts?
I think you saying that is like saying fish evolved into monkeys, and the "Chupacabra" evolved into Chewbacca.
What you're doing, is comparing what you've seen to what the real facts are. Your interpretation on these martial artists are images from movies.
You want to see how effective they are in real life? Go see for yourself.
Not really following you here at all.... No, these guys are not necessarily "masters", I may put Bruce in that category, possibly, and maybe Chuck. Jackie I reserve judgement on.
Want another one?? How about Jet Li? Jet Li is also a Wushu Champion, not just an actor. Your point is extremely biased, as is your contradiction.
The only reason you can't contradict me, is because I am RIGHT.
I'm not? Prove it.
And Wu Shu has exactly what to do with martial arts combative ability? Hmm? It is a showy, demonstration art designed for the Beijing Opera and movies...
What you apparently fail to realize is that, These three actors had lives even before you knew about them. Two of them still have lives today.
And you fail to realise that we have been here a lot longer than you have, and have a lot more experience than you. Really, you haven't chosen your battles well...
I used to think that Jackie Chan was about as skilled in fighting as a monkey fighting for a banana; but my perceptions have changed tremendously. I still don't like him as an actor, by any means. In my opinion, the man isn't even funny; but he is a very skilled martial artist.
Perhaps my argument about the "Bruce Lee vs Jackie Chan" was actually debatable, due to the fact that I cannot find it anywhere over the internet.
No, he is a very talented performer. His original art was Hapkido, he went on to train in a few others (the list you posited earlier, I'm not sure of a lot of that!), but the guy is a performer. So is Jet Li, by the way.
Edwin Dewees and Vitor Belfort got into the Octagon (UFC) at very young ages. Are you saying that because of your "longer years of training" that it makes you any better than them? Hell Dan Lauzon is around my age, and he started at age 18!
Take Sugar Ray Leonard, Roy Jones Jr, and Mike Tyson for instance. I guarantee all of these fighters are exceptionally good in the ring, and in the street.
Age and 'years of experience' obviously doesn't mean a damn thing. It does? Show me. Give me good examples.
These are professional fighters who do this for a living.
There are many other fighters that would mop both of us up off our ego-trips in seconds that are just as young as me, or younger.
I take your comment as discriminatory, very rude, and irrelevant.
Well, with you saying you don't want to hear from those with less training than you, this comment makes on sense. You only want to hear from those with over 16 years training, but age and experience don't mean anything to you?
Now, the guys you mentioned train hard at single arts. And they train seriously for the result they are after. No wonder they are going further than you at present.
Oh, and "Iron" Mike Tyson broke his hand in a street fight, you know... too used to the gloves giving some protection...
My stepfather was a cop, SWAT, and county SRT for over 20 years. He's retired now. The man has also mastered the art of Tae Kwon Do, are you about to say that TKD is ineffective?
Sure, Tae Kwon Do is useless in a street fight. Great for winning Tae Kwon Do tournaments, though! Unless it is trained with the concept of the street in mind... Again, it's not the art, kid.
I will check these out; but as for you, I personally feel that you should back up what you say before you insult others (such as famous actors known and accredited for their abilities), including myself.
Just a formal and respectable thought...
Frankly, and I'll let JKS decide how he wants to take this, I have seen little other than some basic lip service of any respect from yourself so far, starting with your introduction here. That will need to change. You may note I've stopped being gentle, although this is still far from harsh from me.