Lowering The Drinking Age

[Andrew Green]

I hope this link works. http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/cbook/chap11.html
In any case it is a study showing that that lowering the age that makes it legal to buy alcohol substantially increases motor vehicle accidents involving alcohol, and increase the rate of fatal motor vehicle accidents. There's your reason not to lower the drinking age.
Lori M

Which is only part of the issue.

Binge drinking on campus and at private parties is another. Traffic accidents are people driving home from bars and clubs, binge drinking, and all of the accidents and dangers that come with that are another. That is the aspect of this that the University professors are aiming at.

Now as for the study, there are a couple major problems with any such study. A change in the law means a period of adjustment. When you lower it you suddenly have a large group of people that were not able to drink in public, but now are. There is bound to be some problems until the law "settles".

It is also stating a increase in accidents for that age group, but fails to compare accidents in that age group to accidents in other age groups. It doesn't look like it makes a causal connection between the age, rather then just alcohol in general.

Banning alcohol served in public places altogether would likely reduce DUI occurrences substantially, and as a result auto fatalities. But, as history tells us, that leads to all sorts of other problems. Of course if you only look at the pieces that support your desired result...

Lower aage limit will increase DUI occurrences, that is a given, you have more people on the road that are allowed to drink, or more importantly more people on the road allowed to go into bars and clubs. But whether or not a higher or lower drinking age increases or decreases safety across the board is a more difficult issue then just looking at traffic stats.

 

[pete]

I think that the voting age should be raised. Most of the youth that vote don't have a clue of whats going on anyways. They don't vote for someone because of thier issues IMO. They vote based on either age or looks. IMO.

first off, most of the youth don't vote anyway. those that do would be considered to have a 'mental disorder ' according to your m.savage tagline, so's we see where your comin' from~~~

but then again, most 'adults' whatever that means, don't vote either, and prob'ly those that do have less of a clue of what going on than the youth.

so let 'em drink a beer, and don't let 'em drive if they do... whether your 18-19-20-21-22-23...47...71...

pete

(question to self: why am i in the study?)

 

[teekin]

Well it's 18 here, but most of us didn't wait until our 18th birthday to have a drink

I'm pretty sure that I have seen some studies that claimed a higher drinking age lead to more problems, more binge drinking, more alchohol related car accidents, etc.

21 really doesn't make sense to me. If a person can drive, vote, and get shot at for their country they should at least be able to have a beer as well

I am waiting for a study to back up this statement Mr. Green. Other that traffic stats which will tie into insurance stats, and that was a huge sample by the way, covering both Canada and the US, what else would you like to look at. Why aren't traffic stats good enough? Would you prefer autopsy reports. ER intake reports? Police blotter stats? What do you consider a reliable study?
Lori

 

[Ray]

if you can join the military, you should damned well be able to buy a drink.

21 is arbitrary, and stupid.

All rules are arbitray. Rules provide a means for simple people to live their lives without much thought. That's why they work so well for most people.

I've never seen alcohol make anyone smarter or promote any positive change in any desirable attribute.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Either lower the drinkging age, or make 21 the legal age to enlist in the military and to be recognized as an adult.

It's a double standard and it's ridiculous.

If a person's old enough to deal with the stress of being shot at while serving in the military, then by God that person deserves to have a beer when they come off of patrol.

 

[JadeDragon3]

I think that driving should be raised to 18. If you look at statistics young teenagers AND elderly people have more wrecks than any other group of people. I'm in the insurance business and know this as a fact. Young people (16 to about 21 yrs old) are inexperienced and more risk taking than people who are older. Elderly people are just not as "sharp" as they once were so they tend to have accidents a lot also. Drinking should remain at 21. Voting should be raised to 21 as well.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I am waiting for a study to back up this statement Mr. Green. Other that traffic stats which will tie into insurance stats, and that was a huge sample by the way, covering both Canada and the US, what else would you like to look at. Why aren't traffic stats good enough? Would you prefer autopsy reports. ER intake reports? Police blotter stats? What do you consider a reliable study?
Lori

If you're going to include traffic stats then I suppose you support making driving with cell phones illegal.

The stats on that show that someone talking on a cell are just as likely to cause an accident as someone that's been drinking.

 

[JadeDragon3]

If you're going to include traffic stats then I suppose you support making driving with cell phones illegal.

The stats on that show that someone talking on a cell are just as likely to cause an accident as someone that's been drinking.

Absolutely. I've almost been in numerous accidents where some idiot was talking on thier cell phone and almost hit me because they weren't paying attention. Its ridiculous. some states already have that law.

 

[Gordon Nore]

The legal drinking age here in Ontario is nineteen. Back in the days, it was twenty-one, then dropped to eighteen, then pushed up to nineteen. The rationale for putting at nineteen was that Ontario high schools used to have a grade thirteen. The thinking was that it was problematic having HS seniors who could drink and obtain alcohol for their peers.

My university actually had seven coffee shop / pubs on campus that served liquor from afternoon through the evening. While I wouldn't want to promote drinking, for health purposes, the reality is that teenagers on college campuses are going to drink. If it's illegal, they're going to drink covertly and therefore without supervision.

Personally I think the resources of colleges and universities are better invested in health education that enforcing laws against underage drinking.

 

[CoryKS]

I've never seen alcohol make anyone smarter or promote any positive change in any desirable attribute.

Except for getting prettier at closing time.

 

[teekin]

If you're going to include traffic stats then I suppose you support making driving with cell phones illegal.

The stats on that show that someone talking on a cell are just as likely to cause an accident as someone that's been drinking.

Driving with cell phones no, driving while talking on a cell phone yes. A small but important legal distinction. And I still have not seen any studies to back up MR. Greens statements. Nor any hard core factual reason as to why a study covering 2 countries was problematic. Traffic and insurance stats are widely used and accepted.
Lori M

 

[Ray]

Except for getting prettier at closing time.

Thanks but I'm always pretty.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Driving with cell phones no, driving while talking on a cell phone yes. A small but important legal distinction. And I still have not seen any studies to back up MR. Greens statements. Nor any hard core factual reason as to why a study covering 2 countries was problematic. Traffic and insurance stats are widely used and accepted.
Lori M

I know. I'm a certified Underwriter and worked in the field for over 7 years. =-)

I simply have a severe dislike for double standards. If being 18 means being an adult in this country, then I see no reason not to let someone who is 18 drink...legally that is.

Thing is, they drink regardless. IMHO, that actually leads to more DUI's than it would if it were legal.

Think about it....you're 18...in college and are having a party. Since it's illegal you have to hide it. You have to have your party in a deserted field somewhere...you can't call a cab to pick you up in a deserted field, so you drive home.

They're going to drink whether it's legal or not. I say, make it legal so that more 18 -20 year olds don't have to sneak around to do it. It also takes away the allure of rebellion by doing something against the status quo.

Countries that don't try to legislate morality like this have fewer problems with it as a result....that should tell you enough right there. We've created a lot of our own problems by trying to legistlate morality to the extreme.

 

[Kacey]

18 was the legal age to drink across most, if not all, of this country, until about 24 years ago, at which point the federal government forced states with drinking ages less than 21 to raise the age to 21, or lose millions in highway funding. The decision to raise the age was not popular at the time it occurred (right about the time I was 18-21) with people of any age, and I don't recall it making any difference in how many people in that 18-21 age range drank - just in who went out to pick up the liquor.

There have been studies that show that people who grow up in cultures where drinking is strictly forbidden are more likely to get totally drunk when they do drink; having already committed the sin by having a drink, they are much more likely to continue on to getting drunk. This is in contrast to people who grow up in cultures where drinking in moderation is acceptable grow up learning to drink in moderation; people from those societies have a lower alcoholism rate than the cultures in which drinking is forbidden. Should we, then, allow drinking so that teens can learn to drink in moderation? I don't know... but it's something to think about.

On a related note from within this thread, the reason so many teens have car accidents is lack of experience driving - raising the driving age will not solve their lack of experience; it will simply move it to an older age range.

 

[teekin]

18 was the legal age to drink across most, if not all, of this country, until about 24 years ago, at which point the federal government forced states with drinking ages less than 21 to raise the age to 21, or lose millions in highway funding. The decision to raise the age was not popular at the time it occurred (right about the time I was 18-21) with people of any age, and I don't recall it making any difference in how many people in that 18-21 age range drank - just in who went out to pick up the liquor.

There have been studies that show that people who grow up in cultures where drinking is strictly forbidden are more likely to get totally drunk when they do drink; having already committed the sin by having a drink, they are much more likely to continue on to getting drunk. This is in contrast to people who grow up in cultures where drinking in moderation is acceptable grow up learning to drink in moderation; people from those societies have a lower alcoholism rate than the cultures in which drinking is forbidden. Should we, then, allow drinking so that teens can learn to drink in moderation? I don't know... but it's something to think about.

On a related note from within this thread, the reason so many teens have car accidents is lack of experience driving - raising the driving age will not solve their lack of experience; it will simply move it to an older age range.

Kacey, I have seen studies that uphold this argument, true. It is something to think about. I don't know that lower the legal drinking age would have the same effect in N.A. as in Europe. Different cultures, different mindsets.

Lori m

 

[Rich Parsons]

No the age to own firearms is 21 not 18. Maybe to own a rifle but a pistol is 21. Lowering the drinking age to 18 is ridiculous. At 18 a person isn't mature enough to handle it. The only reason that most people here on this thread are saying to lower it is because they are not of legal drinking age. Look at the immature actions of frat guys and sorority girls when they have parties and get drunk. They fight, they drive, and they have sex (usually unprotected). Thats just what we need.

Is that for your state or all states? I believe in Michigan it is 18 for a pistol.

 

[Rich Parsons]

18 was the legal age to drink across most, if not all, of this country, until about 24 years ago, at which point the federal government forced states with drinking ages less than 21 to raise the age to 21, or lose millions in highway funding. The decision to raise the age was not popular at the time it occurred (right about the time I was 18-21) with people of any age, and I don't recall it making any difference in how many people in that 18-21 age range drank - just in who went out to pick up the liquor.

There have been studies that show that people who grow up in cultures where drinking is strictly forbidden are more likely to get totally drunk when they do drink; having already committed the sin by having a drink, they are much more likely to continue on to getting drunk. This is in contrast to people who grow up in cultures where drinking in moderation is acceptable grow up learning to drink in moderation; people from those societies have a lower alcoholism rate than the cultures in which drinking is forbidden. Should we, then, allow drinking so that teens can learn to drink in moderation? I don't know... but it's something to think about.

On a related note from within this thread, the reason so many teens have car accidents is lack of experience driving - raising the driving age will not solve their lack of experience; it will simply move it to an older age range.

When I was 13 the drinking age was 18. It was easier for kids in High school to get it. After it was raised to 19 and the 21 all it required was buying the alcohol of some guy over 21 to buy it for you.

So, as to the studies about binge drinking and as stated by Kacey, once they have crossed the line they might as well go all out, I agree. The issue is that most people who grow up with alcohol on the table be it wine or beer and can have a small drink at home form my experience drink less in college because it is not such a big deal. To make it 18 for college would be good for the college crowd. I was 17 in college and so would have had to wait. I think it might help with the binge drinking, I do not think it would help with those that already drink a little. I do know those that went to college and had to get their stomaches pumped because they just drank too much. I do not remember hearing about as many when the drinking age was lower.

As to drinking and driving, the current laws of the state I live in such that it is hard to drink anything and drive. If you are pulled over then it is easy to the the new limits and one is then put into the system. So if people understand cause and effect, i.e. drinking alcohol causes one to get drunk and have impaired reactions then they understand that they would be in lots of trouble if they drove.


But, as stated first, I think the drinking age being lowered might help the college students, it might make it easier for the HS students. Of course as I stated if they are serious they can get it anyways.


As to the 18 and military, well I think those in the military should be able to drink at the PX as long as they are in the military. If they get out and are still under age well they are a civilian they go back to those laws, even if they sometimes do not make sense.

 

[MJS]

I hope this link works. http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/cbook/chap11.html
In any case it is a study showing that that lowering the age that makes it legal to buy alcohol substantially increases motor vehicle accidents involving alcohol, and increase the rate of fatal motor vehicle accidents. There's your reason not to lower the drinking age.
Lori M

Good point. I think its safe to say that there are more accidents with teen drivers compared to older drivers. I found this. So, going on those numbers, teen crashes will most likely increase.

Like I said, regardless of the age, people will find ways to get around the law. I really doubt that kids will be any more responsible if its lowered. Only difference will be, is that it'll be easier to get.

 

[Drac]

Well it's 18 here, but most of us didn't wait until our 18th birthday to have a drink

Ditto...Boons Farm Apple Wine...

 

[Drac]

it's about time.

at 18, you can vote, marry, own firearms (for now), & enlist in the military. you are an adult. drinking is either legal for adults or it isn't. it's unfair to not allow 18 year olds to drink, & it does encourage unhealthing drinking habits.

jf

No argument from me..