love/hate

[Manny]

Don't know if I wrote about this before but I am having a love/hate relationship with my spining and spining/jumping kicks,I love them but I hate them at the same time because I can't do them. The spining and spining/jumping kicks are the cream of the cream amoung TKDoings, I really love seen those kicks performed by the Korean Tigers, for example, but the truth it's I can't do these kicks.

My muscles, tendoms and joints are getting old and I simply can not do a spining kick, like the spining hook kick and this makes me feel unhappy and feel I am not a true tkd man.

My basic kicks (the easy ones) are very good but the other kicks, the flashy ones are poor in performance and this is killing me because I want to teach my students how to do these flashy kicks.

Sniff... Sniff....Sniff

Manny

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Dont worry Manny. Some of the best tkdists I know cant do those kicks, but if you spar against them you quickly realise that by perfecting kicks that suit their body type, age etc, that they really dont need them. I spend a bit of time away from the dojang working on those kicks because they are good fun, but in the dojang I dont waste my time on the flashy stuff. If you have to defend yourself on the "street" you will be glad you perfected the useful kicks and didnt waste valuable time jumping and spinning all over the place

 

[granfire]

Time to go back and re-read "ZEN in the Martial Arts"

While I was always athletic, I also wore glasses most of my life. So keeping myself right side up was a necessity of life. I love to see people tumbling...it's just never been in the cards for me. And now that I passed the big 40, a girl can keep dreaming, but dangit I keep waking up!

While the spin kicks are sweet to watch, their real application, even in sparring matches is really limited. So we keep practicing them (if I don't have to jump, I don't, getting old is bad enough without complications) so that we maybe reach some level of acceptable performance in them. We just won't be that wiery guy who is not old enough to remember VHS tapes. We work on the impossible, because that's what we do, but we should not lose sight of what we can do well! :asian:

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

We work on the impossible, because that's what we do, but we should not lose sight of what we can do well! :asian:

You've given up! I am joking...once you say it's impossible how can you expect to do it? I say, "Frick, if that 8 year old can do it....I should be able to!"

I consider there to be 2 aspects to be able to do a more difficult high kick like a spinning hook kick to the head: the physical ability, and the coordination. If your foot can't get to head height, you can't do a spinning hook kick to the head. So work on your flexibility. If you're plenty flexible to get your foot that high, but you just don't have the coordination, practice!

Manny, I've read before that you complain of not kicking high etc... Work on it! Do flexibility exercises. Jog to lose any extra weight. Don't accept "I am old". Figure out WHY YOU CAN"T DO IT and work on it!

 

[granfire]

You've given up! I am joking...once you say it's impossible how can you expect to do it? I say, "Frick, if that 8 year old can do it....I should be able to!"

I consider there to be 2 aspects to be able to do a more difficult high kick like a spinning hook kick to the head: the physical ability, and the coordination. If your foot can't get to head height, you can't do a spinning hook kick to the head. So work on your flexibility. If you're plenty flexible to get your foot that high, but you just don't have the coordination, practice!

Manny, I've read before that you complain of not kicking high etc... Work on it! Do flexibility exercises. Jog to lose any extra weight. Don't accept "I am old". Figure out WHY YOU CAN"T DO IT and work on it!

LOL, I accomplish the difficult with ease, the impossible takes a bit work.

But in any case, it's prudent to know where the limitations are. because, well, you might age better with exercise, but the exercises are not easier as we do age.

Also, it might be more economical to perfect what we do well than getting frustrated, maybe hurt over trying to accomplish what is just not going to happen. A man has got to know his limitation.

 

[puunui]

Spin hook kick isn't that hard. Any black belt should be able to do it. In my opinion, you just need to practice more.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Spin hook kick isn't that hard. Any black belt should be able to do it. In my opinion, you just need to practice more.

I find practicing the spinning hook kick on a body opponent bag (i.e., a sparring dummy) to be very helpful. When practicing at home, it's nice to have a target to hit as opposed to thin air.

I've spent a bit of time practicing (on a body opponent bag at home) 2 kicks: the spinning hook kick, and the tornado kick. It really REALLY annoyed me to see 10 year olds at the same belt level as me (about 4th gup at the time) do pretty decent tornado kicks while mine sucked. So I spent alot of time practicing at home!

 

[igillman]

It really comes down to how much time do you want to spend to be able to do the spinning, jumping kicks? Given enough practice you will be able to do them but what are you giving up in order to do that?

 

[Balrog]

I ain't getting any younger either, and my spin and jump spin techniques are suffering. That being said, I'm working harder on understanding the mechanics better so that I can teach the techniques to the 16 year olds with springs in their legs. :lol:

 

[Manny]

Thank you all guys! The situation is I really don't have anough time to train outside dojang, plus the foot condition I have (phasitis plantar), yeah a little bacon but I try to do my best, I train a little while I am teaching twice a week, and yes as you wrote here with diligent training I can improve a little my kicks.

Last night only a student came up to class so we did some basic hook kicks (bande tolia) with no sping just the hook kick ala Will Wallace, with my right leg the kick was good at head level with the left only chest level, the we did bande tolia dolio ala Bill Wallace too (you know the hook kick and without lowering the leg the do a round kick) but this time balance and muscular strenght did not allow me to do this combo.

Maybe I will try next time the spinning hook kick and see.

Offcourse been not so good in high/spining/jummping kicks I won't use them in real self defense, for that matter I know a front kick,side kick or round kick to the stomach and below works great to me, even a back kick.

Manny

 

[StudentCarl]

It really comes down to how much time do you want to spend to be able to do the spinning, jumping kicks? Given enough practice you will be able to do them but what are you giving up in order to do that?

OK. I'll bite: What are you giving up??

By practicing them:
You get better at managing your balance. You get better at using both turning and your body to power a kick. You get better at using your body's momentum. You get better at recovering after you kick. You get better at changing directions quickly. You get better at turning tightly, which helps your mechanics with many techniques.

I may provide comic relief for people who watch, but I keep getting better. Last I heard the story, the tortoise still won the race. And I will have better coordination, agility and balance than my peers when I'm old if I do what I can.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

It really comes down to how much time do you want to spend to be able to do the spinning, jumping kicks? Given enough practice you will be able to do them but what are you giving up in order to do that?

Agreed, there is an opportunity cost to everything. I do think it can be valuable to practice difficult techniques that you will never use, if that raises your general level and now more basic kicks are even more effective. With that said, if a person does not have time outside the dojang, then it's a decision to be worse at TKD and better at something else - a better husband or father for instance.

But isn't TKD sort of a cult ? - isn't it supposed to be the most important thing in life, for which we give up everything?

 

[RobinTKD]

But isn't TKD sort of a cult ? - isn't it supposed to be the most important thing in life, for which we give up everything?

your damn right it is!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Spin hook kick isn't that hard. Any black belt should be able to do it. In my opinion, you just need to practice more.

I agree. I dont even regard spin hook kick as 'flashy'. By black belt it should be a reasonably easy kick.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I agree. I dont even regard spin hook kick as 'flashy'. By black belt it should be a reasonably easy kick.

How often do you practice it at your club? We may practice it once per month, so for it to be good by black belt level you either have to have natural ability, or you need to practice it at home.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

How often do you practice it at your club? We may practice it once per month, so for it to be good by black belt level you either have to have natural ability, or you need to practice it at home.

For us its a grading requirement for black belt. I wouldnt say we practice it a lot but by the time someone's black belt grading comes up they have done it enough over the years to be reasonably good at it. For me it was like riding a bike, once I got it down it was down. I now go months between doing the kick but if I have to do it, it just comes easily. But like with everything in martial arts, if you just do the training in class time and do nothing in your own time then it would probably take ages to get down. My instructor always tells us to do at least one hour out of class for every hour done in the dojang. Between white belt and black belt I would have done literally thousands of spin hook kicks in my backyard.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

. Between white belt and black belt I would have done literally thousands of spin hook kicks in my backyard.

I'm in Canada...my backyard is where I learnt the slap shot!

Thanks for the note - I feel less uncoordinated knowing that I am not the only one who needs to practice on his own to do a kick well.

 

[puunui]

How often do you practice it at your club?

We consider the spin hook kick to be a basic kick so it is practiced at every class.

We may practice it once per month, so for it to be good by black belt level you either have to have natural ability, or you need to practice it at home.

Once per month is not enough in my opinion. At a very minimum, I would say at least once per week.