Looking To Get Started

[Gerry Seymour]

Are you referring to two classes at the same place? If so, they probably have it set up that way so that you can do exacrtly that! If it's two different places, it wouldnt be rude to cross train, but being consistently late will probably start annoying them.

Lineage is nice, but in reality not that important. If a person is focusing too much on his lineage and not enough on what he can do, that might be an issue. If an instructor is hidign his lineage, that also might be an issue. Otherwise it doesn't really matter.

You absolutely do want a place that rolls. That's a large portion of Judo, and the schools that neglect it are neglecting a part of the curriculum. Definitely a big plus. (Plus, rolling is hella fun)



The answer you will probably hear is that grappling is the better workout. However, I don't necessarily think thats true. They both work out different muscle groups, and when you start with grappling you will be using a lot of energy to make up for your lack of technique, so you will be exhausted from about 15 seconds in. And a lot of striking places will ignore cardio because 'it isn't as important as technique'. However, if the kickboxing place goes hard on the cardio (even just making you do multiple 3 minute rounds in a row), and the judo/bjj place has you doing randori or rolling fairly often, then both will get you a pretty good workout.



Out of curiosity, which are the 3 schools you've narrowed it down to?

To the OP: I'll toss in that which school is the better workout (from those originally mentioned) will depend more upon the school than the art. I've seen Judo schools that were somewhat docile most of the time, and I've seen Judo schools that were quite vigorous most of the time. I assume the same could be found in BJJ, or nearly any other art.

 

[Tames D]

That's not even on his list.

I think he forgot to insert the backslash.
Main - Tama Martial Arts Center - Kenpo/Kickboxing

 

[WaterGal]

(2). How much should I consider lineage? For example, a BJJ instructor I have the choice of got his BB from Pedro Sauer, who got his from Rickson Gracies. That's a pretty direct link to the Gracie family. Is that something to strongly consider or just an added bonus or not important at all?

Others may be able to offer more insight into this, but my understanding is that Pedro Sauer has a affiliate program where other schools with lower-ranking instructors can, like, pay him to go to their school to do seminars and test the students. (There's a place near me that's a Sauer affiliate, and from what I've heard, the owner there trained at another local school, not with Sauer himself.) The guy you're talking about may have gotten his belt from Sauer, but that doesn't mean that he trained very much with Sauer. Which doesn't mean he's not good! He might be great! And he might have actually trained at Sauer's school, I don't know.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is - don't assume that just because Pedro Sauer tested him for his black belt, that he's automatically a better practitioner or a better instructor than the teachers at the other schools. Go and see for yourself.

 

[JMulford]

Others may be able to offer more insight into this, but my understanding is that Pedro Sauer has a affiliate program where other schools with lower-ranking instructors can, like, pay him to go to their school to do seminars and test the students. (There's a place near me that's a Sauer affiliate, and from what I've heard, the owner there trained at another local school, not with Sauer himself.) The guy you're talking about may have gotten his belt from Sauer, but that doesn't mean that he trained very much with Sauer. Which doesn't mean he's not good! He might be great! And he might have actually trained at Sauer's school, I don't know.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is - don't assume that just because Pedro Sauer tested him for his black belt, that he's automatically a better practitioner or a better instructor than the teachers at the other schools. Go and see for yourself.

Very good point and one I hadn't really considered in the case of a person's lineage. Definitely something to consider. In the case of Matt Strack, it seems that he moved out to Utah(if I recall correctly) for something like 9 years to train directly with Sauer, so it seems that a good portion of his BJJ training has come under Sauer.

Overall though, your point is well taken. I could have trained in boxing under Ali and it doesn't mean that I'm a good boxing coach. I will definitely check him out in person and form an opinion.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

That's not even on his list.

Main - Tama Martial Arts Center - Kenpo/Kickboxing

really now its on his list

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Main - Tama Martial Arts Center - Kenpo/Kickboxing

really now its on his list

You still haven't stated why you think that's a better choice. Which of the goals that he listed does kenpo/kickboxing provide better than the other options, or why is that kenpo/kickboxing school superior to his other options?

 

[JMulford]

I appreciate all of the advice everyone. Just one more thing.

I have narrowed it down to two schools. I will tell you the specifics on each and then offer my last question.

SOMA BJJ -

I could attend 4 instructional classes a week and 4 open mats if my schedule works out as planned.
$99 a month
Good feeling about instructor and he learned from one of the best(Pedro Sauer)
5 minutes from house

Dayton MMA Academy

This would offer me the two arts I am interested in
I could attend 5 BJJ classes and 2 kickboxing classes a week if my schedule works out as planned
$130 a month for the two arts
Placed 3rd the other day as a team in NAGA Cincy Gi and No-Gi
20 minutes from house

Obviously Dayton MMA has a slight advantage in that it offers my two arts but I also would like to stay healthy, so that's where my final question lies.

For those of you that are either around my age(37 and 38 in June), do you think doing the two arts is too much? Especially in a back to back setting? In your opinion, should I just solely focus on the BJJ? I would love to do both but not at the risk of completely overtraining my body and cutting my time short. I consider myself an above average athlete at my age(or I always have been and am slowly rounding back into shape) but certainly not a high-level athlete like some that I see.

I'm solely searching for opinions here. I know that no one can give me the complete answer other than myself. You guys have been very helpful thus far, so anymore insight will be much appreciated.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I appreciate all of the advice everyone. Just one more thing.

I have narrowed it down to two schools. I will tell you the specifics on each and then offer my last question.

SOMA BJJ -

I could attend 4 instructional classes a week and 4 open mats if my schedule works out as planned.
$99 a month
Good feeling about instructor and he learned from one of the best(Pedro Sauer)
5 minutes from house

Dayton MMA Academy

This would offer me the two arts I am interested in
I could attend 5 BJJ classes and 2 kickboxing classes a week if my schedule works out as planned
$130 a month for the two arts
Placed 3rd the other day as a team in NAGA Cincy Gi and No-Gi
20 minutes from house

Obviously Dayton MMA has a slight advantage in that it offers my two arts but I also would like to stay healthy, so that's where my final question lies.

For those of you that are either around my age(37 and 38 in June), do you think doing the two arts is too much? Especially in a back to back setting? In your opinion, should I just solely focus on the BJJ? I would love to do both but not at the risk of completely overtraining my body and cutting my time short. I consider myself an above average athlete at my age(or I always have been and am slowly rounding back into shape) but certainly not a high-level athlete like some that I see.

I'm solely searching for opinions here. I know that no one can give me the complete answer other than myself. You guys have been very helpful thus far, so anymore insight will be much appreciated.

I'm 52 years old, never a great athlete, and I train both BJJ and kickboxing (actually several striking arts). It shouldn't be a problem.

What is more of an issue in terms of training is the total weekly training time and intensity. If you attend 2 BJJ and 2 kickboxing sessions in a week that isn't necessarily any rougher on your body than attending 4 BJJ sessions in a week. (You will progress more slowly in each individual art because you are dividing your available time between them, but you'll be a more well-rounded martial artist overall so your priorities determine whether that's a good tradeoff.)

I would be cautious about jumping in to 4-5 classes in your first week unless you are already in very good shape. You're going to be sore in muscles you didn't know you had for a while (especially with BJJ), so you might want to start out with 2-3 classes your first week and build up from there based on what your body tells you.

Both the schools you listed should be fine choices. Before making a decision I would visit both and see which has the atmosphere and teaching style which suits you best.

 

[Headhunter]

Irecommend kenpo kickboxing

Kenpo kickboxing? That's 2 different styles. If anyone offers something like that it sounds more like a moneymaking thing and the instructor may have brief training in both styles and just put the name together that's my experience with that kind of thing

 

[Dylan9d]

I had a look at the Dayton Kali Academy and it looks like it all comes from Dan Inosanto.

Thats not a bad thing because Dan Inosanto had solid Kali and Silat training ofcourse but there is one thing thats a bit strange:

Cimande
An old Indonesian village and river bed martial art. This class will focus on bone conditioning.
**Instructor approval required to take this class**

Cimande is so much more than bone conditioning, so I think the instructor is trying to sell Cimande but he doesn't know enough about the system to teach it in full

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I'm 52 years old, never a great athlete, and I train both BJJ and kickboxing (actually several striking arts). It shouldn't be a problem.

What is more of an issue in terms of training is the total weekly training time and intensity. If you attend 2 BJJ and 2 kickboxing sessions in a week that isn't necessarily any rougher on your body than attending 4 BJJ sessions in a week. (You will progress more slowly in each individual art because you are dividing your available time between them, but you'll be a more well-rounded martial artist overall so your priorities determine whether that's a good tradeoff.)

I would be cautious about jumping in to 4-5 classes in your first week unless you are already in very good shape. You're going to be sore in muscles you didn't know you had for a while (especially with BJJ), so you might want to start out with 2-3 classes your first week and build up from there based on what your body tells you.

Both the schools you listed should be fine choices. Before making a decision I would visit both and see which has the atmosphere and teaching style which suits you best.

Completely agree with this. When I first started my Kungfu training (which is a lot gentler of a workout than bjj or kickboxing) I went straight into doing 4 hours of training a week. This was a bad idea as my body wasn't prepared for it and as a result I tore my hamstring from overuse.

My advice would be to start off with an hour a week and build it up once your body gets used to it more.

 

[JMulford]

Hey everyone,

Got delayed a bit due to a hernia surgery, which caused me to miss over a month of work, and obviously didn't allow me to get started with this.

I go in to speak to a guy today. Pretty excited. I do have a question for you guys as I'm looking over what I have chosen.

I fully intend to study two arts. I want diversity, and I want to be able to learn a bit more to be a little more "complete", so to speak.

My question to you guys is that I have narrowed it down to either Kickboxing/BJJ or Kenpo/Kickboxing.

I'm not really looking for opinions on which duo to match up, as I'm sure the overwhelming favorite would be KB/BJJ but I'm curious if it's okay to train Kenpo/Kickboxing together? Or would one training dilute the other since they are both hands/feet arts?

The Kickboxing style is Muay Thai just for clarification.

Also, keep in mind that my schedule would allow for the below involvement in each art depending on what gets matched.

Kickboxing/BJJ

KB - 3 classes(3 hours) a week
BJJ - 2 classes(4 hours) a week

Kenpo/Kickboxing

Kenpo - 3 classes(4 hours) a week
KB - 2-3 classes(2-3 hours) a week

Any input is appreciated. Looking forward to finally starting this journey.

 

[Ironbear24]

Hey everyone,

Got delayed a bit due to a hernia surgery, which caused me to miss over a month of work, and obviously didn't allow me to get started with this.

I go in to speak to a guy today. Pretty excited. I do have a question for you guys as I'm looking over what I have chosen.

I fully intend to study two arts. I want diversity, and I want to be able to learn a bit more to be a little more "complete", so to speak.

My question to you guys is that I have narrowed it down to either Kickboxing/BJJ or Kenpo/Kickboxing.

I'm not really looking for opinions on which duo to match up, as I'm sure the overwhelming favorite would be KB/BJJ but I'm curious if it's okay to train Kenpo/Kickboxing together? Or would one training dilute the other since they are both hands/feet arts?

Also, keep in mind that my schedule would allow for the below involvement in each art depending on what gets matched.

Kickboxing/BJJ

KB - 3 classes(3 hours) a week
BJJ - 2 classes(4 hours) a week

Kenpo/Kickboxing

Kenpo - 3 classes(4 hours) a week
KB - 2-3 classes(2-3 hours) a week

Any input is appreciated. Looking forward to finally starting this journey.

I actually wouldn't recommend you begin with two arts at the same time. Also which form kenpo karate is it?

 

[JMulford]

I actually wouldn't recommend you begin with two arts at the same time. Also which form kenpo karate is it?

Without sounding like I actually have any idea what I'm talking about, I'll link it. I guess it's a bit of a hybrid that he put together. I know that's often frowned upon but his background and reputation are pretty good. He also has weekly sparring in his various arts, so you get a chance to actually apply some things. It's probably not Kenpo in the truest of forms if I were to guess, but of course I am completely new, so I can't say much about it.

Kempo Karate Jujitsu - Tama Martial Arts Center

I'll obviously take a look into things myself before deciding what exactly is for me. As for not doing two arts, I may very well just start for one for a bit but the long goal is two.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Hey everyone,

Got delayed a bit due to a hernia surgery, which caused me to miss over a month of work, and obviously didn't allow me to get started with this.

I go in to speak to a guy today. Pretty excited. I do have a question for you guys as I'm looking over what I have chosen.

I fully intend to study two arts. I want diversity, and I want to be able to learn a bit more to be a little more "complete", so to speak.

My question to you guys is that I have narrowed it down to either Kickboxing/BJJ or Kenpo/Kickboxing.

I'm not really looking for opinions on which duo to match up, as I'm sure the overwhelming favorite would be KB/BJJ but I'm curious if it's okay to train Kenpo/Kickboxing together? Or would one training dilute the other since they are both hands/feet arts?

The Kickboxing style is Muay Thai just for clarification.

Also, keep in mind that my schedule would allow for the below involvement in each art depending on what gets matched.

Kickboxing/BJJ

KB - 3 classes(3 hours) a week
BJJ - 2 classes(4 hours) a week

Kenpo/Kickboxing

Kenpo - 3 classes(4 hours) a week
KB - 2-3 classes(2-3 hours) a week

Any input is appreciated. Looking forward to finally starting this journey.

One of my kempo places was actually a place that taught kempo and kickboxing, it helped me a lot in terms of applying my kempo. There shouldn't be an issue with that.

I'm going to second the idea that you don't need to do two arts. Are you going to be doing this competitively, and if so what format? If not, I would recommend sticking with one art and just focusing on that for a while, otherwise it might be too much information at once especially at the beginning.

 

[JMulford]

One of my kempo places was actually a place that taught kempo and kickboxing, it helped me a lot in terms of applying my kempo. There shouldn't be an issue with that.

I'm going to second the idea that you don't need to do two arts. Are you going to be doing this competitively, and if so what format? If not, I would recommend sticking with one art and just focusing on that for a while, otherwise it might be too much information at once especially at the beginning.

I'm competitive by nature but too old to get into serious competition I suspect. I'm definitely interested in sparring however.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm going to weigh in and say, while you don't need 2 arts, there may be a good argument for it. It's an argument you should like: because you want to. You'll probably progress more slowly at first if you start 2 arts at once, but if doing 2 feels good and keeps you interested, then it might be a good thing. I've had students who studied 2 arts at once, and they seem to struggle a bit at first, so it might be worth delaying one while you get a grip on the other.

Unless you just want to do both at once, in which case - go get 'em!

 

[Ironbear24]

I guess it's a bit of a hybrid that he put together. I know that's often frowned

No it isn't.

It's probably not Kenpo in the truest of forms if I were to guess, but of course I am completely new, so I can't say much about it

There isn't really a such thing as true kenpo. The thing about kenpo is itself began as a hybrid art coming from various Chinese arts and shorin ryu karate along with Judo. Every kenpo dojo I have visited has been a hybrid art that focuses on rapid striking, with a more or less even combination of hands strikes and kicks/knees along with throws/takedowns.

I don't really know the individuals in mentioned but honestly I've never been one to trace lineages and nit pick family trees. This sounds like good Kenpo, because it seems to carry on the tradition of being hybrid.

I say go right now and take a trail lesson

 

[Ironbear24]

I'm going to weigh in and say, while you don't need 2 arts, there may be a good argument for it. It's an argument you should like: because you want to. You'll probably progress more slowly at first if you start 2 arts at once, but if doing 2 feels good and keeps you interested, then it might be a good thing. I've had students who studied 2 arts at once, and they seem to struggle a bit at first, so it might be worth delaying one while you get a grip on the other.

Unless you just want to do both at once, in which case - go get 'em!

Well it's not two arts though. It's a hybrid art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well it's not two arts though. It's a hybrid art.

He asked about studying two arts. (post #32)