I know there are two of them that I can remember off of the top of my head and a Genbukan dojo as well in Chicago and the Indianapolis area has a couple as well along with there is a Genbukan one in Fort Wayne. I'm going off of what he said I know the one that was out in my area American Warrior Arts closed down and that Winjutsu's directory isn't that accurate because its still listed on there so it wouldn't surprise me. If anybody knows some people that belong to the Bujinkan in Chicago I'm willing to give you his name so that you can see if he ever actually trained with them. If he lied that his life he messed up not mine.
Looking for Ninjitsu Training Partners in the NW Indiana Area
- Thread starter ronin7411
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Are you willing to pay it for me ? If so then I'll go when he contacted me one of the dojos was doing a special buddy sign up discount but he never got back to me to make it fit into my budget. Its easier said than done when you don't have the resources to do it.
ScholarsInk
Yellow Belt
Don't try that "You don't know what I'm going through" crap on me. I too am a full-time student and I spend more money and time on transport to training than I do on the training itself.
Tensei, another student, gave you some very practical advice earlier in the thread that you ignored along with all of the advice on Kutaki. I will repeat it here anyway.
Then don't say anything unless you plan on helping the situation and for starters you guys don't even know anything about me other than what I put on this forum. Do any of you stay with me ? no Do any of you know how I even look like ? no Did any of you ever come to think that I was able to get a time slot at a martial arts school because I'm training there already plus I beat a couple of the TKD instructor's Black Belts too? no Talk all of the crap you want at the least I'm putting forth the effort to make something out of myself in the martial arts by actually doing it and working with what I can.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Cojitsu Kai? Are you saying that they are a Bujinkan Group? I'm asking mainly because it doesn't sound like one at all.... to begin with, the Japanese is terrible (there is no "co" in Japanese, "jitsu", as we have said too many times in this thread, is nothing to do with martial arts, as it means "truth", as opposed to "jutsu" meaning the practical art side of things, these are hallmarks of non-legit groups, frankly, especially if they also use the term "ninjitsu" as you have yet again...). Also, the only source I can find of them is a Facebook page featuring an octogon in their picture.... far from ninjutsu there. Not saying they aren't good, but they seem far from Bujinkan from these clues....
As for your entire comment about Winjutsu's directory not being that accurate (as it still lists a now defunct school), and "if anyone trained in Bujinkan in Chicago I'm willing to give you (the name of the guy who I spoke to) to see if he actually trained.... if he lied that's his life he messed up not mine", I really don't know where to start.... What completely unfounded sense of entitlement do you have? Winjutsu relies on others to supply information, they don't call every school to ask if they're still operating, and they are in no way obligated to tell you anything! They keep a list of known (to them) and approved dojos, but if it's not completely up to date, it's a free list on a website! And with the guy you spoke to, if he lied?!? It sounds to me like he was discussing his own personal school (and I'm going to suggest he was a student, not an instructor, right?), so take his comments in that light. He had no reason to lie, and you have no reason to suggest such a thing. Then "he never got back to me to make it fit into my budget"? And why should he have to? I have to ask what makes you think you deserve such treatment (and don't play the "I'm poor and go to college" thing, you're far from alone in that, even on this thread)?
When it comes to your last comment here ("don't say anything unless you plan on helping the situation..."), okay. Here comes the help. You may notice that this is the same that you have had on each of the last three pages, by the way.
Save your money and learn in a real school.
Don't think that self-training is anything close to training in the art itself. It's not.
If there is no-one near you (genuinely, although I think it has been shown that that is not the case), wait. Self-training is not anything close to training in the art itself.
Forget anything you think you know about the art. Because from what you have shown here, what you think you know is completely off base.
It's N I N J U T S U, not N I N J I T S U. No argument, no personal preference, it's just that. Okay?
In short, if you cannot get to a school, afford to train in a Bujinkan/Genbukan/Jinenkan school, or find the time for a school, then you cannot train in Ninjutsu. Accept that and move on, or accept that those three things would need to be overcome.
Your first post here stated that you want to open a dojo (which you feel/felt was missing in your area), really, how do you expect to do that while self-learning yourself? Even if you were training under one of the best teachers around, it'll be years before you would be in any way ready to teach and start a dojo. Horses and carts go in a very particular order, don't mix them up. Like running and walking, or in your case, probably crawling (in regard to your Ninjutsu experience/expertise/understanding).
It really doesn't matter if you have a time slot at a martial arts school, or how many of their TKD black belts you "beat", son, if you can't get to a school, afford to learn at a school, find the time to go to a school, you are not, and cannot, train in Ninjutsu. At all.
Do you understand this?
As for your entire comment about Winjutsu's directory not being that accurate (as it still lists a now defunct school), and "if anyone trained in Bujinkan in Chicago I'm willing to give you (the name of the guy who I spoke to) to see if he actually trained.... if he lied that's his life he messed up not mine", I really don't know where to start.... What completely unfounded sense of entitlement do you have? Winjutsu relies on others to supply information, they don't call every school to ask if they're still operating, and they are in no way obligated to tell you anything! They keep a list of known (to them) and approved dojos, but if it's not completely up to date, it's a free list on a website! And with the guy you spoke to, if he lied?!? It sounds to me like he was discussing his own personal school (and I'm going to suggest he was a student, not an instructor, right?), so take his comments in that light. He had no reason to lie, and you have no reason to suggest such a thing. Then "he never got back to me to make it fit into my budget"? And why should he have to? I have to ask what makes you think you deserve such treatment (and don't play the "I'm poor and go to college" thing, you're far from alone in that, even on this thread)?
When it comes to your last comment here ("don't say anything unless you plan on helping the situation..."), okay. Here comes the help. You may notice that this is the same that you have had on each of the last three pages, by the way.
Save your money and learn in a real school.
Don't think that self-training is anything close to training in the art itself. It's not.
If there is no-one near you (genuinely, although I think it has been shown that that is not the case), wait. Self-training is not anything close to training in the art itself.
Forget anything you think you know about the art. Because from what you have shown here, what you think you know is completely off base.
It's N I N J U T S U, not N I N J I T S U. No argument, no personal preference, it's just that. Okay?
In short, if you cannot get to a school, afford to train in a Bujinkan/Genbukan/Jinenkan school, or find the time for a school, then you cannot train in Ninjutsu. Accept that and move on, or accept that those three things would need to be overcome.
Your first post here stated that you want to open a dojo (which you feel/felt was missing in your area), really, how do you expect to do that while self-learning yourself? Even if you were training under one of the best teachers around, it'll be years before you would be in any way ready to teach and start a dojo. Horses and carts go in a very particular order, don't mix them up. Like running and walking, or in your case, probably crawling (in regard to your Ninjutsu experience/expertise/understanding).
It really doesn't matter if you have a time slot at a martial arts school, or how many of their TKD black belts you "beat", son, if you can't get to a school, afford to learn at a school, find the time to go to a school, you are not, and cannot, train in Ninjutsu. At all.
Do you understand this?
Here is there website http://cojitsu.com/?page_id=40 I found it on the first page of a Google search well I said what I said if anybody from my area whats do some training with me no matter style they know its cool with me just show up if not it doesn't bother me.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
I googled Cojitsu Kai, that explains why that site didn't turn up.... fair enough.
Hmm, just to let you know, if Cody is training under a Shodan (Pablo?), that's not really going to garner much respect for him as a teacher of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. Remember an instructor in the Bujinkan is 5th Dan or higher. And the fact that everything else there is so violently different to it I'm not convinced that the training would be that great (from a Bujinkan perspective). Cody just seems too much into the MMA world, and the Ninjutsu thing is just kinda tacked on. And frankly, when it comes to martial arts, too many is a bad sign.
Add to that the less-than-solid resumes of some of his instructors, and I'm not getting a good picture. One example is Tim Formigan, an instructor under him appearing to be Jim Hope here: http://allstarkaratemi.com/instructors Jim makes a few claims that leap out at me, including the standard "Koga Ryu", "founding" his own systems of Ninjutsu and Kenjutsu, and claiming to have studied "Yagyu Ryu Kenjutsu"... which I'm sorry to say doesn't exist. What is sometimes refered to in such a way is the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, although that is more accurately Yagyu family branch of Shinkage Ryu (making Shinkage Ryu the actual name of the system), if such a system had been studied he should have known that.
Frankly, I can't see any way for Cody to be able to pass on the actual skills of the Bujinkan with such disparate other systems that he teaches, particularly if he is training under such inexperienced people (as his bio indicates). If you enjoy the training there, great, but I'm not sure that he's really any representation of the Bujinkan arts, there's just too much else there that completely contradicts it.
Hmm, just to let you know, if Cody is training under a Shodan (Pablo?), that's not really going to garner much respect for him as a teacher of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. Remember an instructor in the Bujinkan is 5th Dan or higher. And the fact that everything else there is so violently different to it I'm not convinced that the training would be that great (from a Bujinkan perspective). Cody just seems too much into the MMA world, and the Ninjutsu thing is just kinda tacked on. And frankly, when it comes to martial arts, too many is a bad sign.
Add to that the less-than-solid resumes of some of his instructors, and I'm not getting a good picture. One example is Tim Formigan, an instructor under him appearing to be Jim Hope here: http://allstarkaratemi.com/instructors Jim makes a few claims that leap out at me, including the standard "Koga Ryu", "founding" his own systems of Ninjutsu and Kenjutsu, and claiming to have studied "Yagyu Ryu Kenjutsu"... which I'm sorry to say doesn't exist. What is sometimes refered to in such a way is the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, although that is more accurately Yagyu family branch of Shinkage Ryu (making Shinkage Ryu the actual name of the system), if such a system had been studied he should have known that.
Frankly, I can't see any way for Cody to be able to pass on the actual skills of the Bujinkan with such disparate other systems that he teaches, particularly if he is training under such inexperienced people (as his bio indicates). If you enjoy the training there, great, but I'm not sure that he's really any representation of the Bujinkan arts, there's just too much else there that completely contradicts it.
Yeah, I'm wondering which one hes talking about myself...
Yeah, but you can be a Shidoshi-ho as long as you are doing so under a shidoshi and have your Shidoshi stuff renewed yearly with the Hombu.
Chuck Gauss is on their instructor list and I will vouche for him based off personal friends. (Chuck is really good) I do not know Pablo or who he trained with so that is a surprise here in Michigan. I would be curious to know who his instructor is if he is being sponsored by somebody and if members there are registered in the Bujinkan, etc. Especially since they appear to be using the name! While the Japanese Cojitsu Kai is different/weird I do not know Cody, etc. and wish them the all the best of luck at their facility and hope they are doing well!
Now to Ronin7411 if you want to study from one of the Kan's (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan or an off shoot like ToShinDo, etc.) and learn authentic skill sets then as Chris and everyone else has told mentioned you need to find an instructor and train for years and get the skill sets that are required. It does not matter what you want to do or who you can beat in a match, etc. You simply cannot teach under the Ninjutsu banner without actually training under a qualified instructor in one of these systems. (at least not without people questioning and or laughing at you) You need to have legitimacy and lineage in order to do so! Now if you want to teach MMA, have at it as that is what everyone is doing now a days and you probably are as certifide or more as some out there doing it right now! Yet your problem here and why no one will give you a pass has to do with the fact that you are claiming to teach Ninjutsu! Sorry but no one will say that is okay! At least no one from a respected lineage!
Now to Ronin7411 if you want to study from one of the Kan's (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan or an off shoot like ToShinDo, etc.) and learn authentic skill sets then as Chris and everyone else has told mentioned you need to find an instructor and train for years and get the skill sets that are required. It does not matter what you want to do or who you can beat in a match, etc. You simply cannot teach under the Ninjutsu banner without actually training under a qualified instructor in one of these systems. (at least not without people questioning and or laughing at you) You need to have legitimacy and lineage in order to do so! Now if you want to teach MMA, have at it as that is what everyone is doing now a days and you probably are as certifide or more as some out there doing it right now! Yet your problem here and why no one will give you a pass has to do with the fact that you are claiming to teach Ninjutsu! Sorry but no one will say that is okay! At least no one from a respected lineage!
ScholarsInk
Yellow Belt
Furthermore, perhaps the guy from Kutaki didn't want to take you with him because then you'd be his liability. Perhaps he's uncomfortable introducing someone from the internet to his teacher; I know I would be.
Just for informatin purposes, if you are looking for a Bujinkan Dojo in the Chicago area there are plenty to try out and choose from. Try this:
http://www.winjutsu.com/winlinks.html
There are dojos downtown, the northside, westside and southside. Also in August of this year, the Mid-West taikai will take place.
http://www.mwtaikai.com/
Most instructors around Chicago and the midwest will be there. All the instructors there have been to Japan or have connections with people who frequent or live in Japan. I can't stress the importance of that enough.
http://www.winjutsu.com/winlinks.html
There are dojos downtown, the northside, westside and southside. Also in August of this year, the Mid-West taikai will take place.
http://www.mwtaikai.com/
Most instructors around Chicago and the midwest will be there. All the instructors there have been to Japan or have connections with people who frequent or live in Japan. I can't stress the importance of that enough.
Y'know, I just reread this thread, after spending the weekend at our annual Memorial Day tournament. I got to spend some time with some senior members of my style, and one of them has a story that's kind of relevant here. He was introduced to our system, and chose to start training in it... but there were no teachers nearby. He would take a bus from his home in one state, travel to the chief instructor's city, train almost continuously for a weekend, then take the bus home, writing notes about his training until he passed out. He'd practice at home, and then repeat the process a few weeks later. He became one of the leaders of our system.
If Ronin's goal is to teach ninjutsu/taijutsu... he needs to train in that, under a qualified instructor. As long as he wants to make excuses about why he can't do that... he's not training in any of the related arts.
This "Cojitsu" group looks like they train hard. But they're all over the map, with MMA, jujitsu, ninjutsu (under a shodan, with no mention of who the shodan is affiliated with directly), krav maga (no explanation of that training at all...), and more. Let me use one of my favorite analogies... If you want a truly great order of lasagna, you aren't likely to find it in Eat At Bob's Diner, where you can get a steak, fried chicken, lasagna, Irish stew, and jerk chicken, too. Odds are that you'll get a better order of lasagna at an Italian restaurant, a better steak at a steakhouse, and so on, right?
Again... TRAINING is good. Working out,, practicing hard... that's all great. But you can't tell us practice MMA, and then try to claim it's ninjutsu.
(And... just to flog the dead horse into pate, the proper spelling is with the U, not the I. It's not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of personal preference. It's simply proper and improper.)
If Ronin's goal is to teach ninjutsu/taijutsu... he needs to train in that, under a qualified instructor. As long as he wants to make excuses about why he can't do that... he's not training in any of the related arts.
This "Cojitsu" group looks like they train hard. But they're all over the map, with MMA, jujitsu, ninjutsu (under a shodan, with no mention of who the shodan is affiliated with directly), krav maga (no explanation of that training at all...), and more. Let me use one of my favorite analogies... If you want a truly great order of lasagna, you aren't likely to find it in Eat At Bob's Diner, where you can get a steak, fried chicken, lasagna, Irish stew, and jerk chicken, too. Odds are that you'll get a better order of lasagna at an Italian restaurant, a better steak at a steakhouse, and so on, right?
Again... TRAINING is good. Working out,, practicing hard... that's all great. But you can't tell us practice MMA, and then try to claim it's ninjutsu.
(And... just to flog the dead horse into pate, the proper spelling is with the U, not the I. It's not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of personal preference. It's simply proper and improper.)
I don't know how many times that I got to say this but I'M NOT TEACHING NINJITSU/NINJUTSU I'M STUDYING IT SO THAT I CAN TEACH IT DOWN THE ROAD AFTER TRAINING WITH A CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR AND BACKED ORGANIZATION!!! You crawl before you walk then from walking you learn to run so as simple as its sounds I want to earn rank up to the proper rank to instruct it and until them I'm a student JUST LEARNING AND PRACTICING MOVES.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hmm, you waited a month to come back with that? Okay....
We got the idea of you wanting to teach from your first post here, in which you said:
That said, I'm actually going to revisit this entire opening post, and see if I can clarify a few things for you in detail, especially in regards to why your entire plan here is, frankly, flawed from the outset.
One last point. On another forum (budoseek) you have the same thread going, although they really didn't entertain you as long there. You have actually re-visited that site today and posted this:
(From Budoseek.com)
No, it just simply isn't in any way, shape, form, feature, description, method, feel, taste, aim, approach, attitude, or desire Ninjutsu. More than anything else, you need to understand that. You have posted nothing relating to Ninjutsu training (save for the limited Cojitsu thing) at all, so frankly, although you may be "just learning and practicing moves", it really doesn't sound like any of them are Ninjutsu.
If you really want this art (for whatever reason), then find a dedicated school, rather than the MMA one you have found (even with it's Bujinkan element), and more importantly than anything else, recognise that you really don't know about the art, and in order to train it you will need to change your beliefs about martial arts training, Ninjutsu, and a lot more. Recognise that it will take years before you may be able to open a dojo. And recognise that Ninjutsu may simply not be for you.
We got the idea of you wanting to teach from your first post here, in which you said:
That said, I'm actually going to revisit this entire opening post, and see if I can clarify a few things for you in detail, especially in regards to why your entire plan here is, frankly, flawed from the outset.
One last point. On another forum (budoseek) you have the same thread going, although they really didn't entertain you as long there. You have actually re-visited that site today and posted this:
(From Budoseek.com)
So putting on Boxing Gloves, Shin Pads, Chest Protectors, and Head Gear then Kickboxing against Tae Kwon Do Black Belts and then doing Jiu-jitsu with people who train with professional MMA fighters like Miguel Torres for 3 hours is martial arts play acting right ?
No, it just simply isn't in any way, shape, form, feature, description, method, feel, taste, aim, approach, attitude, or desire Ninjutsu. More than anything else, you need to understand that. You have posted nothing relating to Ninjutsu training (save for the limited Cojitsu thing) at all, so frankly, although you may be "just learning and practicing moves", it really doesn't sound like any of them are Ninjutsu.
If you really want this art (for whatever reason), then find a dedicated school, rather than the MMA one you have found (even with it's Bujinkan element), and more importantly than anything else, recognise that you really don't know about the art, and in order to train it you will need to change your beliefs about martial arts training, Ninjutsu, and a lot more. Recognise that it will take years before you may be able to open a dojo. And recognise that Ninjutsu may simply not be for you.
Tanaka
Purple Belt
Perhaps you should explain to ronin that he doesn't realize that Ninjutsu is not the same type of martial arts as what you'll learn in modern schools of martial arts. (Ex. BJJ, Muay Thai, Karate, and etc)
Ninjutsu(Like most Traditional pre-meiji arts) Come with a philosophy and culture behind it. So without understanding the meaning behind the techniques you learn in Ninjutsu. You cannot really say you're a practitioner of Ninjutsu. Or that you're doing Ninjutsu. Starting with the fact that someone whom is a practitioner of Ninjutsu; would not constantly be disrespecting the art by mispronouncing it. Even after being told by experienced members the correct pronunciation. It's even starting to bother me, and I'm not even a practitioner of Ninjutsu.
Ronin these guys aren't trying to be mean. They're just being honest. Unless you go to a legitimate school that has recognized Ninjutsu lineage. You will not be considered a practitioner of Ninjutsu by any sane person. And from the looks of it(unless you like Japanese culture/philosophy/tradition), it really seems like you're looking for something more Hard contact sparring oriented unarmed combat. I haven't heard you once state anything about wanting to learn how to use traditional weapons or weapons at all. I'm basing this off what you've been saying previously in this thread.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hmm, you know, I thought that I had said that more than a few times during this thread.... not clearly enough, I suppose. But, so you know, I spoke about the differences in approach, philosophy, and more, even in the post you quoted there, so I'm in total agreement with you. I really don't think that Ninjutsu is what ronin is after (and again I think I've said that a few times here as well...), he would be happier in an MMA school/gym. Not every art is for everybody...
Tanaka
Purple Belt
Oh if you already said that, then I'm sorry.
He must not be listening to you, because he keeps talking about putting gloves on and sparring with people in the gym. As that is definitely NOT traditional. Maybe he needs a very deep dedicated discussion on why what he is describing isn't related to Ninjutsu. I think he would be much happier with MMA gym as well. It sounds like everything he is looking for would be fulfilled there. I don't think he would get his fulfillment in Ninjutsu, and would end up doing things that's not in the direction he wants. Ronin you sound like a very nice guy, and very eager to become better in martial arts. But... I don't think Ninjutsu is your calling, as Ninjutsu was made for war times. So this means it's dealing with people who would have been wearing armor and using weapons. Not focusing so heavily on unarmed combat(Since most of the unarmed combat was just practiced along side of armed combat), which is what you keep talking about.(Joint locks, Chokes, and etc)
There are other arts that have become more modernized for our tad bit more "peaceful" times.(Not fully peaceful lol). That will put more emphasis on evolved unarmed combat. This is what it seems like you're looking for. In Ninjutsu you won't have guys performing sankaku jime(Triangle chokes), or heavy newaza(Ground techniques).
Because in Ninjutsu this would not be necessary, as your enemy would most likely be carrying a weapon. And you yourself would also have a weapon.(And once someone was put on the ground; they would most likely have a secondary weapon(such as a katana) going through the openings of their armor)
Nowadays martial arts is taught to the non-fighting men. Those who are not usually carrying weapons or allowed to use them without strict rules coming into play. So unless you really enjoy historical arts or have a passion for them(koryu) and their philosophy/culture. You most likely will be doing things that don't interest you. Especially if you enjoy competition fighting.
-This is my opinion on why Ninjutsu might not be for you.
But I really suggest you listen to Chris Parker over me on this topic.
Hes being really nice to you about this.
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Muawijhe
Green Belt
A little off topic, but having read through this post and looking at the CoJitsu website, I think I've met Pablo before. CoJitsu is relatively in my area, though I have never been there.
However, I ran into a gentleman named Pablo a few months ago who had claimed training in the Bujinkan and other martial arts. He looks like the gentleman in the picture on the website, but my memory is fuzzy.
If it is him, then he said he was trained under Otto Cardrew. That's all I can really remember about that, sorry. Perhaps I'll check out CoJitsu if I've ever the free time and desire (MMA isn't to my liking).
However, I ran into a gentleman named Pablo a few months ago who had claimed training in the Bujinkan and other martial arts. He looks like the gentleman in the picture on the website, but my memory is fuzzy.
If it is him, then he said he was trained under Otto Cardrew. That's all I can really remember about that, sorry. Perhaps I'll check out CoJitsu if I've ever the free time and desire (MMA isn't to my liking).
Yep, Muawijhe that is him I trained with Otto as well cool instructor and he is really good with weapons he actually showed how to use a rope as a weapon along with a chain it was fun. I also had his assistant instructor Chris who weighed 300 lbs on top of me during an exercise where I had to get him off of me and Pablo away from me long enough to run to safety. I'm actually highly interested in weapons training because of my Private Security career the problem is the lack of equipment to do it properly before I do any kind of training with weapons I want to get head gear and chest protectors to protect myself. I would definitely like to throw in some Escrima or Kali training as well into my regular training but if you're going to do it make it realistic so just like Dog Brothers contact must be needed to learn everything correctly regarding weapon fighting.
- Status
