Long term effects of conditioning?

[nekoTKD]

Well I was reading a post in the muay thai section of this site, and I saw something about the long term effects of conditioning. So.... I do a lot of it to help with breaking boards and taking hits to the forearms and shins, and Im a little worried about it. Is it true that I'll get arthritis in my knuckles and such? And do you think I'd be allowed to wear hand wraps to break boards? I doubt it.
Also have any of you been doing it for a long time with no negative side effects?

Thanks!

-Brandon

 

[Autocrat]

It depends on the methods you use, how often you use them and how you treat your body imbetween.
I see all these things about developing callouses and training the body for really heavy impacts.... and wince!
I've always conditioned.... ever since I was a kid.... yet never dramatically.... it's a slow process and I think it's more psychological and physiological. If you can stand there and do 5 to 10 minutes of moderate arm and leg conditioning, then do a couple of minutes practice strikes against a block, into a container of shingle, slap or strike your body with moderate force.... then you won't feel shock or panick when hit in a fight.
If you stand and let people hit you over the head with broom handles, punch brick walls, kick small trees and learn to take hits from small tonnage trucks moving at relatively fast speeds... then yopu will do you body no good.
Take it easy, take it slowly, STOP when it hurts... (not just a surface sting - but any "pain" and stop!), moisturise after hand conditioning, rub the surface of your limbs outwards after impact training to help prevent bruises, learn to breathe correctly during striking absorbtion etc.... and you'll work small miracles for yourself.
And for the lOVE OF HEAlth... don't fall for all the things you see on TV about the results of conditioning and what you'll be able to do! breaking a 2x4 over you arm will hurt... such things are usually tricks and rely on physics... not physiology!

Take it easy,
Take it slowly,
Take care,
It's the only body wou have... respect it and it will help you!

 

[terryl965]

Brandon, breaking no matter what broad, brick , stone, shingles,ect will have an effect on your body just like runners,basketball player there knees and leg give out eventually. Even the best known football player has long term effect. Your body no matter how bulk you are will eventually give out. Like to previous post said take it slow and easy and see what your body will be able to do and go from there. I personaaly broke my wrist a few years ago and everytime I break with the right I feel it for a couple of days my choice to break still and in years to come I'll pay for it one way or another.:whip:

 

[Teh Tot]

If I were you I would stay away from breaking boards with the fist if you have a choice. stick with knife-hands and hammer-fists. its a lot nicer to your hands.

 

[TigerWoman]

Or palm breaks. I think those are easier than knife's. Hammerfist is good.
Yes, it does take a toll. Especially since not all boards are equal and not all bricks are either. Hey, but we have a guy who likes to toss apples in the air and do double spin heels. Messy but not hard on joints! TW

 

[nekoTKD]

Thanks for the replies. Autocrat, lol, don't worry I don't do any of the psycho conditioning, and I don't believe in copying most of the stuff I see on TV. Good tips!
Hmmm I'll ask about the hammer fist or knifehand, but as far as I know we have a few required knuckle breaks. Could be wrong though...

 

[MichiganTKD]

I think kwon go and sandbag practice are necessary to build up power through contacting something that does not move or offers resistance.

HOWEVER...

if you practice on the kwon go, you do not need to try to break the damn thing. All you are doing is practicing stopping power and developing penetrating technique. You do not have to try to break the wall down.
First, have the kwon go made of material that offers some give or elasticity, such as hard rubber or foam. Do not make it out of wood, concrete, or any hard material. If you do, the energy from your fist will rebound back into your fist and cause damage down the road. Additionally, if you constantly pound on hard materials, you risk calcium buildup and arthritis. Having huge knuckles make look badass, but it is really a sign of poor training.
As for breaking, stay away from breaking with hard surfaces against boards or concrete (knuckles, elbows, ridgehand etc.). Stick with knife hand, hammerfist, palmheel. You will save a lot of wear on your hands because the energy can dissipate through soft tissue easier and be less likely to cause permanent damage.

 

[TigerWoman]

I think kwon go and sandbag practice are necessary to build up power through contacting something that does not move or offers resistance.

HOWEVER...

if you practice on the kwon go, you do not need to try to break the damn thing. All you are doing is practicing stopping power and developing penetrating technique. You do not have to try to break the wall down.
First, have the kwon go made of material that offers some give or elasticity, such as hard rubber or foam.

So you make a kwon go out of rubber like a puzzle mat rubber pad? Wish I had practiced this way before a board. I just pounded on a medium heavy standup bag. Wouldn't rubber rebound too? TW

 

[Miles]

TW, the rubber/foam has a certain amount of give-so you are not striking something entirely solid. Usually it is really thick foam covered by a canvas/tarp-like material.

Many TKD schools no longer use kwon go training-what folks have told me is that they feel that the banana bags/Century wavemaster/hogu drills essentially have replaced this tool. I agree to a certain extent, but still have my own kwon go in my basement dojang...along with the wavemaster.
Miles

 

[Zepp]

The kwan go I have has springs underneath the foam pad. It gives just the kind of resistance I want when I practice precision hand techniques. I don't know exactly where it came from because it was a gift, but they told me they found it at a boxing supply store.

 

[MichiganTKD]

The kwon go we used to have at our Central Studio was made of foam covered by a sheet of hard rubber, with a spring underneath. It allowed a certain amout of give (rubber/foam), while offering resistance (thick spring)-but not so much resistance that you risked damaging your hand. You risked more damage hitting it at a bad angle and spraining your wrist.

One more thing: Under NO circumstances should children be allowed to use the kwon go. Until they hit age 15 or so, their bones and muscles are simply not developed enough to withstand the force. Same with regular sandbags.

Instructors who allow their young students to use the kwon go, sandbag, or break regular boards or concrete are idiots who should be arrested for child abuse.

 

[Zepp]

I agree. Conditioning that involves impact shouldn't be done by anyone who's body is still developing. Don't know if I'd call it child abuse, but it's definitely irresponsible and negligent.

 

[Miles]

One more thing: Under NO circumstances should children be allowed to use the kwon go. Until they hit age 15 or so, their bones and muscles are simply not developed enough to withstand the force.

Instructors who allow their young students to use the kwon go, sandbag, or break regular boards or concrete are idiots who should be arrested for child abuse.

I agree with your first statement and don't even allow the kids (under 18) to do knuckle pushups for that very reason.

I don't agree that instructors should be arrested for child abuse-they should be educated. There are a lot of practices handed down from earlier times which are downright bad for you-children punching kwon goes is just one of them.

There are numerous examples of people who have done lots of hand conditioning over long periods of time: GMs Hee Il Cho and Tak Kubota come readily to mind. Have never heard of any long term problems.

Miles

 

[Adept]

The kwan go I have has springs underneath the foam pad. It gives just the kind of resistance I want when I practice precision hand techniques. I don't know exactly where it came from because it was a gift, but they told me they found it at a boxing supply store.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a kwon go?

 

[Miles]

The Japanese call it a "makiwara." It is a padded striking board.

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

Miles,

Actually, in interviews, Tak Kubota stated that he regretted conditioning his hands the way he did. Apparently he suffered some sort of damage or pain due to the years of hard core hand conditioning. Keep in mind, the conditioning he put his hands through was not for mere mortals.

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Brandon, breaking no matter what broad, brick , stone, shingles,ect will have an effect on your body just like runners,basketball player there knees and leg give out eventually. Even the best known football player has long term effect. Your body no matter how bulk you are will eventually give out. Like to previous post said take it slow and easy and see what your body will be able to do and go from there. I personaaly broke my wrist a few years ago and everytime I break with the right I feel it for a couple of days my choice to break still and in years to come I'll pay for it one way or another.:whip:

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Adept]

The Japanese call it a "makiwara." It is a padded striking board.

Miles

Ah, okay. Gotcha.

 

[celtic bhoy]

My master has knackered wrists due to years of punching forging posts, bricks and tiles etc.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Thanks for this thread. I'm also a musician and computer programmer and the flexibilty and strength of my fingers is very important to me, so I will approach hand conditioning a little more cautiously