Actually they do have rights... human rights.
Sean
Loaf in prison: Cruel or unusual punishment?
- Thread starter Grenadier
- Start date
Sean
If nothing else it is a vicious circle.
Sean
Painting a picture of prisons guards with such a broad brush is just as dangerous as doing the same with inmates. While I will grant you that there are some really deplorable people in guard positions, I also have to believe that they fall into the 10% category of most professions. We have more than one member here on the board that are in charge of inmates in one form or another. I haven't noticed any of them being "uneducated, violent morons".
The kitchen where I worked was supervised by a CO. I never had the job of working in the kitchen, but it wouldn't surprise me if something didn't get 'added' into the meal.
I, as well as everyone else that I worked with brought their meals. There were a few times when I was held over, that I was offered a sandwich, however, I declined and hit the vending machine.
True. There was a guy in CT a while back that was actually awarded money due to the fact that he spent many years behind bars only to be found innocent.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that.
There is no need to take shots like this, despite your real feelings. There are some here that do the same towards LEOs and personally, comments like that have no place on here.
And this excuses the behavior described in the OP... how? If I were unlucky enough to be placed in jail or prison for a crime I did not commit, does that mean that I can throw food and urine at those employed there?
Again... this excuses the behavior described in the OP... how? I understand what you mean when you say "victimless" crime - but I disagree with the term and its usage. Simply because no one was physically injured, or because the crime was perpetrated upon large numbers of people (as in embezzlement from a company) does not mean there is no "victim" - it means that the effects are spread among a larger number of people, who must all suffer therefrom. We all pay higher prices to cover the cost of shoplifting - thus we are all victims of this type of crime. Everyone who does business with a particular company becomes a victim when the company loses money, or goes under, because of embezzlement. Price gouging and fixing is illegal - but again, the victims are widespread and many in this "victimless" crime. Should these people go unpunished?
Now... whether or not these people should be in jail, and systems for potential alternative punishments is a topic for another thread.
And you base this on... what? Personal experience? Media reporting? This is a very stereotypical view - and like most stereotypes, if you cannot back it up with fact, it's liable to lead you into trouble in the future.
The prison system itself is not stupid; after all, it is not the prisons which determine who is placed there. The legal system is due for overhaul, like much of our governmental system - if you must place blame somewhere, the judiciary is a better target. So... other than blaming the prisons and prison employees, what are you doing to better the situation? What better suggestions do you have for people who waste food in an immature manner than to provide them with food that is less interesting to eat and easier to clean up?
Define "tons." Yes, there are definitely people in prison who didn't commit the crime they were convicted of. That's not the same as saying they're innocent; I've seen people plea bargain to offenses that were all but unrelated to the original offense (grand larceny to trespass, for example). They weren't innocent; I watched them steal the stuff.
There are fewer people who are truly innocent but get convicted or just plead on bad advice. It's not easy to do in the US legal system, however.
Please, define a "victimless crime." I take great exception to that description of offenses. Who's the victim in prostitution? Often, the prostitute, and the john's family, too. Who's the victim in drug possession? Everyone effected by it, except the dealer.
I take great exception to your description of correctional officers. Most that I know are trained professionals, working in one of the most demanding environments possible. In practical terms, EVERYONE they deal with is a criminal, and the COs are unarmed while they deal with them -- and very outnumbered. By people who often have nothing to do all day but come up with ways to screw with the COs. The days of the guard being barely one step above the inmate are long gone.
Yes, but it is important to remember that they're in prison too.
Indeed. Our area is hard hit by property theft crimes (esp. metal theft) to pay for drugs, for example. Jaywalking on an empty street at midnight--OK, that's victimless. But most crimes exact a cost from society. Jaywalk in the middle of the day and risk causing a pile-up of cars trying to avoid you.
I think this is true. But I'm also sure there are plenty of COs (and LEOs) for whom familiarity has bred contempt. Again, I think we must keep that in mind while remembering it's the exception, not the rule.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2003
- Messages
- 9,998
- Reaction score
- 206
Drinking quietly in public. If you are doing somthing stupid or being a rowdy *******, then no, but many places just consuming in public is a crime.
A car dealership selling a car on Sunday. Who's the Victim? God?
Carrying a switchblade. If its ok to carry any other assisted opener, why is the act of carrying a switchblade a crime? No Victim in that crime, unless you use it on a person.
Carrying car entry tools. If you have them to help people who request it, who is the victim, just because you HAVE them?
Consentual Oral/Anal sex. Hey... theres laws on the books against it some places...
There ARE plenty of "victimless" crimes... mostly things that we make Criminal out of fear that someone MIGHT commit a crime if they had access to it/did it or because someone at sometime found it to be morally abiguous. I'm certainly not arguing the prisons are full of these people, only that they exist.
Ninjamom
2nd Black Belt
True, Cryo, there are many crimes that are truly 'victimless'. However, these laws are mostly ones that people are not sent to jail for breaking. Charges for 'Victimless' crimes are added to the package of charges to help force a plea agreement, add mitigating circumstances to increase the allowed jail time in sentencing guidelines, or just because they are easier to prove than the 'real' reason the person was arrested.
For a good example, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ, or the 'law book' that governs all military members), it is a court-martialable offense for an officer to commit adultery. While I personally think adultery can wreak havoc in a home (i.e., it isn't really 'victimless'), most folks would consider adultery between consenting adults to be in the category of a 'victimless crime'. Last time I checked, about 20 or so officers were prosecuted under this statute per year. However, in each case, the charge was not as a stand-alone offense, but usually coupled with charges of rape or sexual assault (charges usually harder to prove beyond reasonable doubt, with only the physical evidence and the vicitm's testimony that the action was not consentual).
For a good example, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ, or the 'law book' that governs all military members), it is a court-martialable offense for an officer to commit adultery. While I personally think adultery can wreak havoc in a home (i.e., it isn't really 'victimless'), most folks would consider adultery between consenting adults to be in the category of a 'victimless crime'. Last time I checked, about 20 or so officers were prosecuted under this statute per year. However, in each case, the charge was not as a stand-alone offense, but usually coupled with charges of rape or sexual assault (charges usually harder to prove beyond reasonable doubt, with only the physical evidence and the vicitm's testimony that the action was not consentual).
lemon_meringue
Green Belt
Ironic that the world's starving would most likely be willing to commit various crimes just to get some of that loaf and live for another day...
Jean Valjean, anyone?
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2003
- Messages
- 9,998
- Reaction score
- 206
Oh I agree, which is why I said that I wouldnt argue that the prisons are full of those people. I only wanted to point out that they exist.
lemon_meringue
Green Belt
Brother John
Senior Master
Nationally the average is:
70% of all adult incarcerated men are seriously mentally ill.
Your Brother
John
And wouldn't it be better to reach them as children than try to correct them as adults. This is the root of the prison system being our largest GOP. France won't even let you name your kid. You are provided a list to pick from.This is a little over the top but you get the point.
Sean
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
oh no you did not...............
how many sweeping generalzations can fit in one post? THAT many...
do you realize how many you just insulted with that post?
JadeDragon3
Black Belt
And what country is this in? It certainly isn't the U.S.. I worked in the prison system for a few years and I never saw any mentally ill people. I saw plenty of hep C and drug addicts but no mentally ill.
Of course, and that starts at home. Of course, if the parents can't raise their kids right, refuse to get them help, admit theres a problem, or if the kid doesn't accept the help, well.....
punisher73
Senior Master
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
- Messages
- 3,959
- Reaction score
- 1,062
Hmmm, I guess I would like you to define "victimless" here. I have sat in literally hundreds of sentencings and I have never seen someone go to prison here in our county for something with no victim.
Latest Discussions
-
Taiji Quan for Self Defense- Latest: windwalker099
-
-
-