Lifetime memberships

[Kittan Bachika]

Does anyone here have or offer a lifetime membership to their school?

There is a school that I know of that offers lifetime memberships to long time students every now and then.
He does not push these on his students and if there is no interest he pulls them off the table and puts them out for another time.
There have been outsiders who have approached the teacher for the lifetime memberships and he has refused them. He feels
that it should be only for his students who have been with him for awhile.

Now, I have heard of these things before and it is usually marketing gimmick to get more students, money and to tie them up.
But this teacher is really good at what he does and it shows with his students. From what I have heard the lifetime memberships are not cheap
but the membership allow students to take as many classes as they want. The teacher often has seminars where visiting instructors from different styles teach.
Lifetime members get really good discounts and in some cases can take them for free.

The memberships are not cheap but from what I have heard from a couple of students who did the math, after a couple of years, the memberships pay for themselves.

The problem with these lifetime memberships is that you don't know the future. What if you are injured and can't train anymore. Or what if you have to move or the school closes down
or if you have a falling out with the teacher?

 

[dancingalone]

They are sold as a way of raising capital. Might be a good deal if the arrangement is with an established school with little chance of closing its doors anytime soon. On the other hand, it would be risky with a new school with no track record where the owner is undercapitalized and needs the revenue immediately just to pay basic operating costs like rent.

I don't currently sell lifetime memberships, but I have am neutral on their use. It's simply a financial arrangement between school and student. The best way to look at these is to forget about the "lifetime" bit and just figure out what the break-even point is on both sides. It has to be profitable for both sides for it to work out, though in the case of the school owner, he can make money here, lose money there, and hope it ends up on the positive side of the ledger overall.

 

[Instructor]

I've been working with my teacher for 21 years. I didn't sign any lifetime membership but it's certainly what I have. We considered doing it for my school but in the end decided it wasn't good business.

 

[arnisador]

These work b/c so many people don't stick with it--like with gym memberships. I echo the caution about an established school--schools close all the time. Like the instructor? Can you, if he leaves/dies, get a partial refund?

 

[Mark Lynn]

Does anyone here have or offer a lifetime membership to their school?

There is a school that I know of that offers lifetime memberships to long time students every now and then.
He does not push these on his students and if there is no interest he pulls them off the table and puts them out for another time.
There have been outsiders who have approached the teacher for the lifetime memberships and he has refused them. He feels
that it should be only for his students who have been with him for awhile.

I don't have lifetime memberships, however way back early in my training I got one from a school. I was an electrician at the time and I installed some fans and did some other work for a school. I was given a lifetime membership so to say. However nothing was written down, so in time when I moved for a job, after relocating back to the area I wouldn't have been able to approach the new instructors at the school and use that benefit. During this time I also hooked back up with my original instructor and so I drifted away from that school anyway but.... I did get one trading labor instead of cash.

At my first school a student got a "life time membership" for trading labor. The owner had him paint the windows with a mural and do some other work. I think back then (82) that membership was about $1,000.00 at the time. This was when people were charging $30-50 per month for instruction.

Now, I have heard of these things before and it is usually marketing gimmick to get more students, money and to tie them up.
But this teacher is really good at what he does and it shows with his students. From what I have heard the lifetime memberships are not cheap
but the membership allow students to take as many classes as they want. The teacher often has seminars where visiting instructors from different styles teach.
Lifetime members get really good discounts and in some cases can take them for free.

The memberships are not cheap but from what I have heard from a couple of students who did the math, after a couple of years, the memberships pay for themselves.

While from the sounds of it it might not be cheap, it certainly sounds like a good deal! I mean if the "lifetime membership pays for itself in a "couple of years" plus discounts on seminars with visiting instructors, or possibly even free classes with them. That to me sounds like it's a good deal.

The problem with these lifetime memberships is that you don't know the future. What if you are injured and can't train anymore. Or what if you have to move or the school closes down
or if you have a falling out with the teacher?

You are absolutely right that "lifetime memberships" have risk, as in job loss, injury, relocation, falling out with the instructor, or even closure of the school. In fact the first school I attended and used in the above example eventually closed due to the tragic death of the owner/chief instructor in a plane crash a couple of months later. These things happen and that is why there is risk to them, however for some students I believe it can be a very good deal. It sounds like this instructor is offering a good deal.

 

[Mark Lynn]

There is a school that I know of that offers lifetime memberships to long time students every now and then.
He does not push these on his students and if there is no interest he pulls them off the table and puts them out for another time.
There have been outsiders who have approached the teacher for the lifetime memberships and he has refused them. He feels
that it should be only for his students who have been with him for awhile.

I also wanted to expound on this.

From your post, it seems like the instructor is trying to do the honorable thing here. The "lifetime membership" appears to be the instructors way of making a win win situation for him and his students.

1) He offers it to long time students every now and then. So it appears he is choosey and he is in control of who he offers it to. Possibly he selects those students he cares about, sees something in etc. etc. and offers them a way to cut their expenses (in the long run) and keep them at his school. You also said "He feels that it should be only for his students who have been with him for awhile."

2) He doesn't offer it to those whom he doesn't know (you used the term "outsiders") so it doesn't appear to be just a marketing gimmick to raise cash, and that he is banking on the student dropping out.

If the numbers actually break even after about two years than this could be a real bargain; if the student was already in say year 1 of a 4-5 year program (say a course of instruction to earn this 1st deg. BB). Then he would have paid 3-4 years on a 5 year program (getting 1-2 years free so to speak) of instruction. Plus all of the extra discounts.

If a student isn't paying anything then many times the students devalue their training, they start taking it for granted etc. etc. However by the instructor cutting the student a deal ("life time membership") the student still has an investment (money wise) in the school and the art. They are more apt to stay with it, since they see it as a bargain and they are making money on the deal (after the break point they are training for free).

The instructor gets a more interested student (one who values their training since they have a $$$$ investment in it), plus needed funds to keep his school doors open and help to meet his living expenses.

Disclaimer: please let's not derail the thread about is a student more interested if he pays or not, this wasn't my intention.

 

[Gentle Fist]

I am a life member of USJA (organization). Most regional and higher level Judo tournaments require a membership from one of the big three judo organizations. You must also have an active membership in order to collect points for rank promotion. An annual membership is around $40 while the Life Membership is $400. So I would say most people wait till they get to the black belt level before going for LM.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Reading the original post, I'm wondering if this is a true lifetime membership or a say upgrade program with a cash out option. So for the purpose of discussion here is why I'm thinking that this is a possible upgrade and cash out program.

In my earlier post I had mentioned where I did work for a "lifetime membership" at a school and I knew of another guy who did the same at another school. In both instances the work was menial and the memberships while expensive at the time amounted to only about 2-3 years worth dues to train for as long as the school was open. Back then there were no incentives but just to train at the school, no outside benefits (such as seminars and the like to give discounts to etc. etc.) Also back then (early 80's) when you earned your black belt you many times trained for free from that point on as well.

Fast forward to today, now the BB programs in many schools has been shortened to 2-3 years, there are more kids training than before (now more kids than adults), so the training and business systems (teaching, marketing, enrollment, etc. etc.) are much more complex and the environment for running a school is much more competitive. Now at brown belt students are encouraged to sign up for 2nd degree BB programs, some schools try and sign the student up for 1st deg. BB programs as a new student (within their first month or so of taking class).

So in an upgrade program you would charge more and offer the students more incentives, discounts on equipment, more classes, possible free attendance or discounts on visiting instructors, private lessons etc. etc. All for a higher monthly rate of tuition. This raises the student value and helps generate cash flow for the school.

If you offer a "cash out" program when you up grade the student you can offer say 30% discount on paying the whole fee up front for cash. So in a three year program you might get almost a year free of training; plus the discounts, added classes etc. etc. Then offer a 2nd deg. BB program to keep them training after 1st deg.

With the competitive market that is out there in teaching martial arts, the higher costs in marketing, building up keep, etc. etc. I don't understand why an instructor would offer a "life time membership" such as like it was referred to 30 years ago, plus offer discounts, free classes etc. etc. like the OP said. Maybe I'm missing something but a "lifetime membership" could lead to a student paying for a couple of years and getting free teaching for many many years to come. It sounds to me that this instructor is offering an upgrade program with a "cash out option".

 

[Mark Lynn]

I've been working with my teacher for 21 years. I didn't sign any lifetime membership but it's certainly what I have. We considered doing it for my school but in the end decided it wasn't good business.

I too have known and worked with my instructor for many years (30+), he taught us free at his home dojo, so I too have had a lifetime membership. It's great isn't it.

I am curious if you don't mind about your school.
1) Do you teach full time at a stand alone school?

2) Is it your primary source of income? Maybe I should rephrase this, are you running a martial art business that you are relying on the income to support your financial needs?

3) Do you offer programs (such as 1st black, 2nd black, etc. etc.) and or/offer a cash out?

I ask only because it helps put in context (in a sense) "We considered doing it for my school but in the end decided it wasn't good business." To further the discussion (again if you don't mind), why do believe it wasn't good business for your school?

Thanks
Mark

 

[lklawson]

Lifetime membership? If they've been around long enough to be interested a lifetime membership, make them an assistant instructor and have them teach class.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Instructor]

My school is not my primary income, I am in the military. I have kind of a unique martial arts business. I teach military people. The needs of the service often require either them or me to transfer from place to place every few years. I had noticed that many military people will obtain say a mid gup/kyu rank in a style but rarely go higher. Mostly because they transfer from place to place and switch martial arts schools every time. It's incredibly frustrating.

I decided to do something about it and started building a highly interactive continuing learning website for my students. It has since grown to be quite a robust learning system and now people from every walk of life are learning from it all around the world. This isn't learning from DVD's. In fact it's learning live through a webcam with an instructor in a feedback environment.

I do my best to keep my fees low and operate the entire 'business' at cost. Because of this it's nice to have a regular infusion of money in the form of annual memberships and test fees just to keep it all running. My local students essentially train for free though I do take small fees for testing to cover the cost of our orgs certificates. We utilize a borrowed space at the base gym to keep overhead low.

You illustrate a good point Boar Man, every situation is different.

 

[Aiki Lee]

We had lifetime memberships at my school offered for a limited time only to finance our move to a larger building. I took full advantage of it. It was $5,000 up front for a lifetime membership and that's it. It has since paid for itself and I no longer pay a monthly tuition. I do still get charged for seminars, testing, and supplies.