LGBTQA members?

[Danny T]

Tone? Wouldn't that just be part of context? Sounds to me like you're really speaking more to intent and perceived intent.

It is the lack of understanding what one states that creates the concerns.

How you mean something and what it means (in context) can be two different things. Regarding your example, it's exactly what I was referring to above. Context makes all the difference. If you say, "that guy is sick" to one person, in one context, it could mean something very different to someone else, in a different context.

Yeap.

All that said, unintentionally offending someone is usually forgivable, in my experience. I've found that you'll generally get a pass if you say something out of ignorance, but with positive intent. However, that only works once. What happens AFTER you're informed is telling.

As well as the person/s who were offended when they have been informed of the same.

Do you suggest to them that they shouldn't be offended and make excuses, or do you accept that maybe how you were perceived wasn't consistent with what you meant?

Yes.

 

[Jenna]

Encouraging to hear :]

Jenna! I apologize but on my gym's computer I can't use the quote function. My experiences vary. Overall, the majority of in class experiences I and other friends and contacts have had has been positive! However there at one time were some issues behind the scenes at an old school. Nothing was said on the floor and instead on the sidelines, outside of the school. Nothing physical. It was addressed and worked out, ultimately.

It is a shame indeed on those that disrespected you, glad it was addressed though I hope it was fixed swiftly for you. I wonder can I ask please so people who would be of that mind out there might understand.. how does it affect you as a martial artist just looking to train when those others are intolerant or homophobic?

Also I am thinking.. sorry to ask too many ques.. and but would a community-specific school, or an inclusive and accepting school drawn from all sections of the local community suit your own personal reasons for training better do you think? Thank you for being here, Wishes, Jxx

 

[SteyrAUG]

There are some for sure. Or they act that way.
One of my children (who I love unconditionally) is one who finds a way to be offended by almost everything.


Everyone discriminates and should. The problem is to discriminate has become a bad thing where to discriminate means; to recognize a difference in something. For instance there are people who have a difficult time discriminating between fact and fiction or context within a discussion and become offended.

And you are correct. This is like to "prejudge" which has the same negative connotation. But that is why I was specific about discriminating based upon commonality of race, gender, orientation, etc.

That is not a good thing. It is like me giving Charlie Manson a pass because we have similar skin pigment. And when a group identifies or defines itself along the lines of race, gender or orientation you have that problem of preference based upon those criteria. They may think they are an organization devoted to equality, but in most cases that is not true.

 

[clfsean]

Gay - Exuberant, high spirit, exciting, fun filled. Now almost exclusively means homosexual.

Funny... when my aunt came out to my mom back in then 90's, she told her "I'm Gay". My mom replied with "I'm happy too!" which caused my aunt a great deal of laughter ending with "no you moron, I'm a lesbian".

 

[Steve]

It is the lack of understanding what one states that creates the concerns.

No. This isn't correct. The concern is that words have meanings. If you don't fully understand the meaning of the words you're using in the context you're using them, you might unintentionally offend someone. You seem to have it all backwards.

Yeap.


As well as the person/s who were offended when they have been informed of the same.

as I said, my experience is that often, if the offense is unintentional, people are often forgiven. But, it can only be unintentional once. Once you've been informed and keep doing it, the situation is entirely on you.

Yes.

Yeah, okay. Good talk, Danny.

 

[Danny T]

Steve, You are correct words have meanings. Many have multiple meanings. That is why context is important. One person can be speaking honestly and with no divisiveness at all and another can take offense. Usually because they lack the understanding of the context. (this is one reason one news show often has a completely take on a story. The words are the same but presented in a completely different context.)

After a subsequent discussion both are apprised of the specific meanings and it is now up to only the person who has spoken (with no divisiveness I remind you) to change even though the offended party has taken it out of context.

If I am wanting to have a discussion, a real open and honest discussion and want to keep communication open I will use other wording, on the other hand there are those who simply want to be offended no matter what. If they are unwilling to acknowledge the original discussion was presented in a non offensive context what is their responsibility of tolerance.

 

[Buka]

as I said, my experience is that often, if the offense is unintentional, people are often forgiven. But, it can only be unintentional once. Once you've been informed and keep doing it, the situation is entirely on you.

Yes, but.....

Habitual, ingrained language from ones past, while innocent in conception and meaning, can be misunderstood, or pretended to be misunderstood, by those using the modern "this is what it means now in popular culture" fashionistas.

I don't think it can be only be unitentional once. Language habits are like that. It's tough keeping up with the times, they're so ficklle and so incredibly farquared.

 

[geezer]

...on the other hand there are those who simply want to be offended no matter what. If they are unwilling to acknowledge the original discussion was presented in a non offensive context what is their responsibility of tolerance.

Yes there are a lot of people like that. Sometimes my kids seem to find everything I say offensive! My daughter, who hangs with a group that is mostly LGBT, constantly lectures me on my backwardness and stubborn use of outdated, offensive terms. Usually, this just provokes me and I deliberately act obtuse just to tick her off. I know. Bad parenting. But she's 19 and is tough enough to take it.

My kids friends on the other hand are pretty cool with me. Most people seem to get where you are coming from regardless of whether you express yourself adroitly ...or (in my case) ineptly.

Now about the OP. I think a lot of people are being disingenuous if they don't think things like sexual orientation still matter in a lot of martial arts circles. Even in this day and age you still hear a lot of rude, discriminatory comments. I've heard instructors make really off color jokes. For example a young assistant instructor at my son's TKD school berated BJJ as "totally gay" with guys hugging each other, etc. etc. At least he backed down when I called him out for a. making homophobic comments, b. disparaging another martial art (something his father, the head instructor at that school will not tolerate) and c. for just being stupid since I personally know a lot of grapplers that would easily whoop his high-kicking butt!

It is really up to each of us to be willing to stand up and refuse to tolerate that kind of talk. Not quibbling over silly terms, mind you, but expressions of hateful attitudes. And sometimes standing up to that kind of social pressure is a lot tougher than standing up to a physical opponent. At least it is for me.

 

[Steve]

You guys are right. There are some people who are dead set in being offended. I can think of one person here who is like that.

Maybe I've just been lucky, by I don't think they're common, nor is it too difficult to keep up. In fact, some pretty simple rules keep most people out of trouble.

 

[lklawson]

I have been trying to look into any data regarding the issue.

You won't find any because...

At Taekwondowon, they document things like exemplary disabled martial artists, women in martial arts and so on.

Good grief! Can you imagine that question on an enrollment form? "Sexuality and Sexual Orientation - Check all boxes which apply" Seriously, that's really the only way to "track" it and that question would never be asked.

So unless someone just shows up and says, "I'm gay so I want to learn self defense" (which has happened to some friends of mine), then who's to know?

It is nice to know that there appear to be many balanced instructors on this site.

Because, frankly, we pretty much don't give a crap. For most of us, it's even less than a non-issue. "You want to learn martial arts? OK." No one has time to worry about whether that guy is looking at your junk because he's too busy trying not to be choked unconscious, punched in the face, have a limb yanked off, or not be stabbed. No one has time to worry if that chick is actually a dude and, frankly, I'm going to use Kid Gloves working with her anyway because Sexual Harassment lawsuits are a reality.

So if someone is LGBT then... um... who gives a crap. Grab a bowie trainer and start learning the classic sabre pattern.

And I wouldn't ask anyway because 1) don't give a crap 2) Just asking has a pretty good chance of causing negative repercussions.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[greytowhite]

I'm a grey A and my usual local training partner is a bi girl. She has a friend who trains on occasion with us and he is gay. No one really cares about it except for when I put my foot in my mouth. The only time it kinda got awkward was when the gay kid tried some jujutsu stuff on me and then threw a hissy fit when he couldn't pull them off - although he's pretty good at countering my shuai moves from bagua and taiji so it's about even.

 

[Balrog]

As an instructor I don't teach sexuality or sexual orientation, I teach the martial arts to humans. Does not matter as long as you are respectful, work hard, and take instructions.

This.

Very well stated.

 

[Chrisoro]

I'm an ally to the LGBT-community, and have several friends that are gay, lesbians and trans. While I admit that I felt a bit uneasy training grappling with a gay man the first time, probably because of unfamiliarity and some irrational fear that he would hit on me or get turned on or something, after training with him two or three times I forgot all about his sexuality, and focused on the training instead. This was ten years ago in an MMA-club in the northern parts of Norway, and this person was open about his sexuality, without putting a lot of weight on it or being very obious about it otherwise. Since then, I have grappled with several other gay or bi people, and today other peoples sexuality is a non issue for me in any situation, including martial arts.

 

[ShortBridge]

No big deal here in the PacNW. Good people are good people, good training is good training.