LGBT in martial arts.

[Ironbear24]

A recent thread about transgendered in martial arts has come up. So it brought this to mind, I have seen some poor things in the martial arts community about gay and lesbian people.

I personally do not agree with this attitude at all. If anything we should be thankful anytime we get a student or training partner that is gay or lesbian because these people need extra training.

They are more likely to get attacked and threatened because of the fact they are gay or lesbian. Usually by family members too, it would make the most sense to welcome them so long as they are willing to train hard and give it their all.

 

[O'Malley]

Of course, they're people.

You don't need to give them a medal for being gay/lesbian/TG just as you wouldn't give one to someone for being straight or religious or having brown eyes or curly hair but you shouldn't judge or cast them out for it either.

It doesn't matter who they are, what matters is if they treat others well.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

A recent thread about transgendered in martial arts has come up. So it brought this to mind, I have seen some poor things in the martial arts community about gay and lesbian people.

I personally do not agree with this attitude at all. If anything we should be thankful anytime we get a student or training partner that is gay or lesbian because these people need extra training.

They are more likely to get attacked and threatened because of the fact they are gay or lesbian. Usually by family members too, it would make the most sense to welcome them so long as they are willing to train hard and give it their all.

My view is pretty straightforward: I don't see any reason to be concerned about or object to anything that doesn't negatively affect me, people I know/care about, or society in general. This clearly falls into that area. I don't care what people's orientation or identity is. I can't see any reason why I (or much of anyone) should. If they're good people, interested in training, I'll train them.

 

[Danny T]

Another person's sexual orientation is of no concern to me. If they are good people with good attitudes and want to train; it's all good.
I don't go around expressing to all my sexual or gender preferences and don't expect it from others.

 

[Kickboxer101]

The issue in that thread wasn't that they shouldn't train at all, it was that the op felt uncoftoabke with it in a women's only class. I doubt they'd have an issue in a mixed class

 

[Midnight-shadow]

As a gay man myself I personally do not consider myself more at risk of attack than anyone else. After all, I don't go around parading the fact that I am gay with a huge banner saying "gay man here, come at me bro". Hell, I doubt most of the people in my MA school besides my instructor knows I'm gay, and he only knows it because I put it on my membership form. To them I'm just another student of the Martial Arts, and my sexual orientation never comes into it.

 

[Tez3]

The issue in that thread wasn't that they shouldn't train at all, it was that the op felt uncoftoabke with it in a women's only class. I doubt they'd have an issue in a mixed class

The OP of that thread said they were uncomfortable with seeing it in an all female class, they didn't actually say they trained in an all female class so the question could well be purely academic.
It could be also that a transgender person who is transitioning to female also feels more comfortable in an all female class. It should be supposed that all males are built like body builders or that all are super strong and pose a threat to women who are supposedly all small. People regardless of gender come in all shapes, sizes, weights and strengths.

If anything we should be thankful anytime we get a student or training partner that is gay or lesbian because these people need extra training.

Good grief, why on earth would they need extra training? And why say 'these people'? I think you really need to think about those statements then take them back. What on earth were you thinking?

 

[Ironbear24]

Good grief, why on earth would they need extra training? And why say 'these people'? I think you really need to think about those statements then take them back. What on earth were you thinking?

How can they be taken back? They were already said. I don't feel they need to be taken back, statistically speaking gay people are often attacked more by their family members and idiots who don't like that they are gay.

I didn't mean anything offensive with the phrase these people.

 

[Ironbear24]

As a gay man myself I personally do not consider myself more at risk of attack than anyone else. After all, I don't go around parading the fact that I am gay with a huge banner saying "gay man here, come at me bro". Hell, I doubt most of the people in my MA school besides my instructor knows I'm gay, and he only knows it because I put it on my membership form. To them I'm just another student of the Martial Arts, and my sexual orientation never comes into it.

Was there ever any concern that he would have an issue with it? It never comes up at all? I mean it isn't supposed but when me and the other guys talk when class is over sometimes the conversation leads to things related to that.

For example girlfriends and wives ECT, what type of women you like and so on. Has this ever happened? If it does would you lie about it to cover for yourself or would you be honest? If these questions are things you don't wish to answer you don't have to, I am just curious.

 

[Tez3]

How can they be taken back? They were already said. I don't feel they need to be taken back, statistically speaking gay people are often attacked more by their family members and idiots who don't like that they are gay.

I didn't mean anything offensive with the phrase these people.

No, statistically speaking more young men are attacked regardless of sexual orientation.

but when me and the other guys talk when class is over sometimes the conversation leads to things related to that.

You don't train with women then? You and the 'guys' have limited conversational topics then if all you can talk about is girls you fancy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No, statistically speaking more young men are attacked regardless of sexual orientation.

There are areas of the US where certain groups have sought out gays to target them for violence. My impression (I have no statistics to back this up) that this is not nearly as much an issue as it was 20-30 years ago. There may still be areas where homophobia is rampant enough to put gays at higher risk.

You don't train with women then? You and the 'guys' have limited conversational topics then if all you can talk about is girls you fancy.

Let's bear in mind (pun intended) that the OP here is a young male, with all the testosterone and insecurities that includes. These are, in fact, things young men talk about when they are together. And the changing room (at least in my experience) is a place of discussion, as well as doffing and donning of clothes, so if there are a bunch of young guys...

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Was there ever any concern that he would have an issue with it? It never comes up at all? I mean it isn't supposed but when me and the other guys talk when class is over sometimes the conversation leads to things related to that.

For example girlfriends and wives ECT, what type of women you like and so on. Has this ever happened? If it does would you lie about it to cover for yourself or would you be honest? If these questions are things you don't wish to answer you don't have to, I am just curious.

Nope, not at all, although I am quite lucky in that I live and train in Brighton, which is one of the most openly LGBTQ cities in the UK. And no, I would never try to cover up my sexual orientation. I am proud of who I am, but at the same time I don't flaunt it. If it happens to come up in conversation then I will say it, but otherwise I just get on with what I'm doing.

Sometimes at work (where everyone knows I'm gay) I will put on the stereotypical gay camp act but this is purely for laughs and by no means reflects who I am or gay men in general. When I'm training though I focus 100% on that and behave the exact same as everyone else in the room.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

There are areas of the US where certain groups have sought out gays to target them for violence. My impression (I have no statistics to back this up) that this is not nearly as much an issue as it was 20-30 years ago. There may still be areas where homophobia is rampant enough to put gays at higher risk.

Let's bear in mind (pun intended) that the OP here is a young male, with all the testosterone and insecurities that includes. These are, in fact, things young men talk about when they are together. And the changing room (at least in my experience) is a place of discussion, as well as doffing and donning of clothes, so if there are a bunch of young guys...

From what I understand, most homophobia in the US comes from families, where the son/daughter comes out as being LGBTQ to their ignorant homophobic parents and then either get beaten for it or kicked out of the house (or both). There is a huge problem right now with LGBTQ youths becoming homeless purely because they have come out to their parents and been kicked out of their homes for it. Then of course you have isolated incidents like the Orlando shooting where a man went into a gay night club and killed 49 people in it. Thankfully those kinds of events are rather rare these days.

 

[Tez3]

Let's bear in mind (pun intended) that the OP here is a young male, with all the testosterone and insecurities that includes. These are, in fact, things young men talk about when they are together. And the changing room (at least in my experience) is a place of discussion, as well as doffing and donning of clothes, so if there are a bunch of young guys...

However it's also true that those that talk the most about such things are those with the least knowledge and the least 'action' lol.

I will say though that the US with it's much more puritan ( ok prudish) outlook than the UK and Europe seems to have more problems with people's sexuality whatever it is. The debate ( and rancour) I've seen from Americans about who can use 'bathrooms' isn't mirrored here. Our military doesn't make it illegal to be gay or transgender, we have married same sex couples in military married quarters, I know of transgender personnel who are helped with their medical needs etc while transitioning. I think this is indicative of our society as a whole as opposed to the US ( these people?) we have opponents and those who dislike the whole LGBTQ thing of course but it's rarely a political issue more a personal view.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

From what I understand, most homophobia in the US comes from families, where the son/daughter comes out as being LGBTQ to their ignorant homophobic parents and then either get beaten for it or kicked out of the house (or both). There is a huge problem right now with LGBTQ youths becoming homeless purely because they have come out to their parents and been kicked out of their homes for it. Then of course you have isolated incidents like the Orlando shooting where a man went into a gay night club and killed 49 people in it. Thankfully those kinds of events are rather rare these days.

Agreed. They were a bit less rare a while back, and cultural memory makes them continue to stand out as risks.

And I think even the in-home issues are becoming less, as more people are growing up around openly LGBT folks. Homophobia only really works if you don't know good people who happen to be gay and get along well in life. Once that happens, it's hard to think of it as a major issue.

 

[Tez3]

Agreed. They were a bit less rare a while back, and cultural memory makes them continue to stand out as risks.

And I think even the in-home issues are becoming less, as more people are growing up around openly LGBT folks. Homophobia only really works if you don't know good people who happen to be gay and get along well in life. Once that happens, it's hard to think of it as a major issue.

Without getting into political discussions, I will say that many people are afraid the next few years will be a relapse into the bad old days of fear and hatred.

 

[Balrog]

Without getting into political discussions, I will say that many people are afraid the next few years will be a relapse into the bad old days of fear and hatred.

Sorry, you got into it. I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that will happen, other than shrill rhetoric from the snowflakes saying they think it's going to happen.

 

[Tez3]

Sorry, you got into it. I've seen nothing whatsoever to indicate that will happen, other than shrill rhetoric from the snowflakes saying they think it's going to happen.

That would be because you didn't have a referendum and 'Brexit'.

 

[Ironbear24]

However it's also true that those that talk the most about such things are those with the least knowledge and the least 'action' lol.

I will say though that the US with it's much more puritan ( ok prudish) outlook than the UK and Europe seems to have more problems with people's sexuality whatever it is. The debate ( and rancour) I've seen from Americans about who can use 'bathrooms' isn't mirrored here. Our military doesn't make it illegal to be gay or transgender, we have married same sex couples in military married quarters, I know of transgender personnel who are helped with their medical needs etc while transitioning. I think this is indicative of our society as a whole as opposed to the US ( these people?) we have opponents and those who dislike the whole LGBTQ thing of course but it's rarely a political issue more a personal view.

Sadly America is about 50 some years behind you guys.

 

[Buka]

I don't know that America is 50 years behind. Pockets of it, maybe, but not as a whole.

Been teaching since 72. Had openly gay women in my class from 75, for several years. Not common back then, but nobody really cared. all we cared was they kept their hands up. Have friends who are gay. (Have some friends who don't know they're gay). Have friends who have children who are gay. My nephew is gay. Nobody really gives a damn.

My first landlord in Hawaii in 94 was named Lesbian Love. That was her legal name, on her drivers license. Her girlfriend, Ardie, had one of the nicest goatees I've seen to this day. (I still have beard jealously.) Both were hot tickets. They didn't care that my wife and I were straight and we didn't care they were gay.

But I'll tell you what irritates me a little. When a group, any group, goes over the top in a socially aggressive way to continuously declare, repeatedly - that they have brown hair - or whatever, and now your going to hear them roar. Or an individual, Like Ellen Degeneres when she first came out. And even though she was completely accepted, she just wouldn't stop roaring. We get it kid, you're gay. More power to you, we don't judge you, just do the damn show and shut up already.