Let's Get Russian Martial Arts Jumping Again! Thoughts? Suggestions? It's been a Ghost Town in here for a while, which is a shame as recent MA history has shown us, RMA's have a lot to offer the world!
Let's Get Russian Martial Arts Jumping Again!
- Thread starter Jonathan Randall
- Start date
terryl965 said:
Great thread idea, Terry!
SilatSeeker
White Belt
"recent MA history has shown us, RMA's have a lot to offer the world!"
I'm new to rma - what recent history are you referring to?
Personally speaking about why RMA may not be as hot right now... I'm coming from a different arts perspective (silat) - I saw clips and thought it looked interesting. But, after and watching instructors wave their hands in front of an attacker and having him do a triple back flip with a half twist strains credibility. In one clip on Vlad's site, the instructor finished a guy on the ground with a strike that didn't come within 3 feet of him and yet he recoiled like he'd actually been hit...um... riiiiiight...
So, now I'm intriqued, yet suspicious.
I'm new to rma - what recent history are you referring to?
Personally speaking about why RMA may not be as hot right now... I'm coming from a different arts perspective (silat) - I saw clips and thought it looked interesting. But, after and watching instructors wave their hands in front of an attacker and having him do a triple back flip with a half twist strains credibility. In one clip on Vlad's site, the instructor finished a guy on the ground with a strike that didn't come within 3 feet of him and yet he recoiled like he'd actually been hit...um... riiiiiight...
So, now I'm intriqued, yet suspicious.
SilatSeeker said:
Systema is not the only Russian Martial Art, remember. Also, those who've attended Systema workshops often come sceptics and leave believers. Also, Sambo is increasing in popularity with at least one UFC champion to its credit that I know of.
SilatSeeker
White Belt
True, Systema isn't the only Russian art. I've got no suspicions of Sambo.
Go to Vlad's clips. Look at clip #4 (San Diego Seminar) and look at .37 seconds into it and tell me if your a believer
There's a lot here that's cool - but at .37 seconds a big glass of cold water get's thrown on any coals of credibility.
Jonathan, you mentioned that recent history has show that RMA had a lot to offer - was there a specific event that you were referring to? I'm just trying to get caught up on the world of RMA - didn't know of this was a reference to something specific - or the influence of things like leg locks in MMA events?
Go to Vlad's clips. Look at clip #4 (San Diego Seminar) and look at .37 seconds into it and tell me if your a believer
There's a lot here that's cool - but at .37 seconds a big glass of cold water get's thrown on any coals of credibility.
Jonathan, you mentioned that recent history has show that RMA had a lot to offer - was there a specific event that you were referring to? I'm just trying to get caught up on the world of RMA - didn't know of this was a reference to something specific - or the influence of things like leg locks in MMA events?
I was present when Mikhail was throwing that guy around on video. The guy, as far as I knew, had only met Mikhail a few days before during Aiki Expo. He was from a training group in Japan and hardly spoke any English or Russian for that matter. I believe he had been training a year or two in Systema. I don't know if he had any other background in martial arts.
Mikhail threw him around non-stop for about 10-15 minutes with no rest. The guy got progressively more exhausted and could barely stand by the end of it all. As a result I believe he became highly reactive and susceptable to Mikhail's movements. In a way it was if he was induced into a sort of hypnotic state where his mind was easily led. And as you know where the mind goes the body follows.
Anyways what you saw was not staged and there was no verbal communication possible by the two which means to me that what you see is genuine physical and psychological work. Is it combat ... no. Is it combat related ... I think so.
If we can condition someone (the more rapidly the better) to respect (fear) our movement the more likely they will respond to our inputs with little overt physical contact.
Jeff
Mikhail threw him around non-stop for about 10-15 minutes with no rest. The guy got progressively more exhausted and could barely stand by the end of it all. As a result I believe he became highly reactive and susceptable to Mikhail's movements. In a way it was if he was induced into a sort of hypnotic state where his mind was easily led. And as you know where the mind goes the body follows.
Anyways what you saw was not staged and there was no verbal communication possible by the two which means to me that what you see is genuine physical and psychological work. Is it combat ... no. Is it combat related ... I think so.
If we can condition someone (the more rapidly the better) to respect (fear) our movement the more likely they will respond to our inputs with little overt physical contact.
Jeff
SilatSeeker
White Belt
Honestly, when I see a guy on the ground and a guy standing. And the guy standing throws a strike that doesn't come within 3 feet of the opponent and he jolts off the ground like he was really hit - It strains my credibility. The fact that others also see it as real strains it further. And it cast doubt on the system as a whole (perhaps unfairly).
If others see the same thing as the height of psy-opp mastery - who am I to argue?
There's a lot in Systema that really intriques me. That is an exception.
We agree to disagree.
If others see the same thing as the height of psy-opp mastery - who am I to argue?
There's a lot in Systema that really intriques me. That is an exception.
We agree to disagree.
Think about it this way. If Chuck Liddell beat the crap out of you for five minutes straight then you would probably flinch when he waved his hand anywhere near you. Basically this is the same thing. Don't know why this is hard to believe.
Not the magic pill but just something interesting.
Jeff
Not the magic pill but just something interesting.
Jeff
Bradley Scheel
White Belt
silat seeker:
I take it you've taken the time to seek out a Systema player? The same has been said of Aikido and many of its videos "Oh, it looks fake!" My suggestion, a friendly one at that, is stop "looking" and seek out an instructor of Systema and feel it for yourself. Short of that, there is nothing that is going to convince you.
What sets Systema apart is its foundation of Four Principles: breathing, relaxation, movement and good posture. This art relies less on techniques than freedom of movement in a relaxed state. You are not required so much to be a round peg trying to fit in a square hole. You reslove the situation as YOU can. If you are in TKD and can't do a high section roundhouse kick for shame!! There is no piling on of techniques in Systema.
Sure enough, many arts rely on movement and breathing and good posture and movement...its the way we do it that stands us apart.
There are many videos available and there are many seminars offered around the counrty, please seek either out to enhance your knowledge.
I take it you've taken the time to seek out a Systema player? The same has been said of Aikido and many of its videos "Oh, it looks fake!" My suggestion, a friendly one at that, is stop "looking" and seek out an instructor of Systema and feel it for yourself. Short of that, there is nothing that is going to convince you.
What sets Systema apart is its foundation of Four Principles: breathing, relaxation, movement and good posture. This art relies less on techniques than freedom of movement in a relaxed state. You are not required so much to be a round peg trying to fit in a square hole. You reslove the situation as YOU can. If you are in TKD and can't do a high section roundhouse kick for shame!! There is no piling on of techniques in Systema.
Sure enough, many arts rely on movement and breathing and good posture and movement...its the way we do it that stands us apart.
There are many videos available and there are many seminars offered around the counrty, please seek either out to enhance your knowledge.
SilatSeeker said:
What is there to disagree with, honestly? Budoboy gave a straightforward answer. It may not fit within some people's world model but that mean disbelief, not disagreement.
SilatSeeker said:
You said, "he jolts off the ground like he was really hit" implying that the only thing that would make someone jolt like that was being hit. Since someone can't hit someone else from three feet away, it must be impossible.
I agree.
Who said that the guy felt like he was being hit or that the standing guy was hitting?
Say, for argument's sake, that the video is real. Not at all explaining what is going on in the video...just that the content in the video was "honest" and no one was faking or trying to trick anyone. What would you say the reason is for the person "jolting" on the ground?
Like a lot of arts Systema has it's followers who either fake it or are hypnotised into such silly responses. I wish they would publicize this aspect less but it appears to be part of their Russian way of marketing. They talk about Psychic control but it appears that this is a translation problem. When psychic control was demonstrated to me Al McLuckie swung a big stick at me and when I moved he laughed and pointed out that he had made me move without actually touching me. This variety of psychic control is not magic but is a study in human nature. The seminars I've attended have always had at least a few on whom this psychic control has too strong a hold and who make me look like a magician. (I've also had partners at kenpo seminars who responded without me touching them perhaps my Chi is Strong.SilatSeeker said:True, Systema isn't the only Russian art. I've got no suspicions of Sambo.
Go to Vlad's clips. Look at clip #4 (San Diego Seminar) and look at .37 seconds into it and tell me if your a believer
There's a lot here that's cool - but at .37 seconds a big glass of cold water get's thrown on any coals of credibility.
) The instructors I've dealt with however, have always been the real deal. Vladamir Vasiliev, Martin Wheeler, Sonny Puzikas, Al McLuckie, Brad Scornovacco all play hard and can do amazing things. When I've interacted with them it's like falling in a hole and getting hit by a rock. The entry movements tend to be very soft and cause disruption of my alignment, then when no longer in control the finishing moves run the gamut of soft redirection to hard, painful and potentially destructive. Jeff
