Let's debate -- The three ways to open the forms

[Marnetmar]

Few people seem to have realized the secret application of the opening is an X-block/ wrist grab with footwork to a sudden knife attack., either upward to the torso or downward. This is why the ROLLOVER method is WRONG as why would you move the knife further toward you?

Because I don't presume that it's for a knife defense in the first place.

First the wrists cross at the human centre ( Heart) - this is central and fairly non-commital, - then cross down in front of the Earth centre (belly button) then slide upward to cross at the Heaven centre (mouth height) - it's so fundamental it's repeated in all three forms!

I first saw this application years ago on the Cris Crudelli Mind, Body, Kick-A** Moves TV doc. show but I'm not sure which episode it was in.

Luckily, Sifu Julian de Boers, graciously demonstrates the application here:

Du oh - so that's what it's for du oh silly me, du oh but I was told there are no secrets in WC doh!

Many WChunners have conditioned their nervous system wrongly by repeating certain movements thousands of times - I love that middle height, bent wrist bon sao LOL!

I feel like this application is a bit far-fetched. If it works, more power to ya, but I'm not buying it.

 

[geezer]

Few people seem to have realized the secret application of the opening is an X-block/ wrist grab with footwork to a sudden knife attack., either upward to the torso or downward. This is why the ROLLOVER method is WRONG as why would you move the knife further toward you?

Nope. This is not the "secret application".

...'cause you just told us about it. So it ain't a secret anymore!

...but seriously, the longer I spend in WC/VT/WT the more I'm convinced that the forms aren't about applications. Nothing wrong with training some specific applications... just that the forms teach bigger, broader things such as structure, kinetic linkages, and ways of moving that apply to many situations. The kwun-sau version of the opening movement is like that. So many movements involve the under-over rotation that it makes perfect sense to place it at the beginning of the forms.

Now do you have to do it that way? No. The old film footage on Grandmaster Yip Man shows him doing the up-down movement without the roll-over. At least on that occasion. And several of his prominent students do roll the hands over. So do what makes you happy. But don't base you judgement on what is a very common, and not very reliable knife defense that has nothing to do with WC/VT/WT forms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the forms aren't about applications.

The 1st move of the Zimen system 1st form is to drop both arms downward (not across). The purpose is to send the energy all the way to your finger tips. May be the WC move is also similar to the "spear finger".

 

[wckf92]

Can you please chill out with the accusatory tone?

Wasn't meant to be accusatory.

 

[Marnetmar]

Wasn't meant to be accusatory.

Ah, my bad! My apologies.

 

[wckf92]

Ah, my bad! My apologies.

No worries Bro.
Oh, also wanted to mention the search function...I find it quite useful at times. If I'm not mistaken, there has been many posts/threads about this very topic in years past... The searching can be quite tedious, but may prove useful. Thx.