Leopard Kung Fu

[CMyers0323]

I know a lot things.. This guy is pretty spot on. The two things to know, that the leopard does not block it more of a attack and block at the same time.. and a "stop hit". There is the leopard claw which opens up less than the tiger claw. Also, when you look at the video, note that there are some swinging hand strikes that "almost" looks like white crane, where you are twisting both your arms at the same time to balance a wide deployed hand strike:

I've seen his video and it's great! I see that makes sense I've heard that before it's cool to see the difference in fighting styles. Would that claw be similar to a cup choy? Ah I see very cool!

Have you studied leopard yourself as well?

 

[Old Happy Tiger]

I've seen his video and it's great! I see that makes sense I've heard that before it's cool to see the difference in fighting styles. Would that claw be similar to a cup choy? Ah I see very cool!

Have you studied leopard yourself as well?

Thanks for your reply, I'm not going to get into more of my background here on this forum. I did posted some things that I have practiced from direct lineage, one being Tai Chi Chuan (TaijiQuan) for self defense and got some flack on doing so that, and that was "implied" a few times led by of the moderators on the forum here... So that was "lessons learned" and understood by me 100% on posting things here. To note, I've been around a long time in martial arts and modern combatives but I'm not a tough guy and I don't go around trying to get into fights either physical or on internet forums.

I will say, that a leopard paw / fist (bao chui) to the side of the of the neck or front of the throat will drop most naysayers out there, regardless.

 

[CMyers0323]

I have a lot of material I can share on (southern) Leopard. It's a little more complicated than just leopard paw strikes, there are Wu Xing Metal element techniques as well that fall into that category (e.g. Gold Fists Splitting Wood) Same techniques, different categories etc depending on the system you're looking into (and in some, they combine both like in the 10 Pattern Fist).

Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut, etc have a lot of written philosophy on Leopard, particular with regards to strength. Leopard is the animal motif for pure physical strength, compared to Tiger style training the bones (gwot). Technique wise yeah there are not many, and they are kind of scattered around different fist sets. But you can usually recognize Leopard, it's fast and powerful motion with the fists compared to Tiger claws, Snake hands, and even Dragon.

It's been a while but I'm revisiting the leopard/ metal element. You mentioned you have alot on southern leopard, would you mind sharing it if you hadn't already? Also where could I find the Wu Xing Metal technqiues? If I remember right it's not the same as Xing Yi but I'm sure it's worth looking into

 

[Oily Dragon]

It's been a while but I'm revisiting the leopard/ metal element. You mentioned you have alot on southern leopard, would you mind sharing it if you hadn't already? Also where could I find the Wu Xing Metal technqiues? If I remember right it's not the same as Xing Yi but I'm sure it's worth looking into

I'll have to re-read the thread and see what I haven't posted yet. There's a lot of good stuff from the last time we chatted. Top of my head we went over the proper leopard fist structure, the different strikes, body targets, some Hung Ga basics...I guess it might help to dig up some more southern fist sets, in particular 5 Animal Fist Leopard section. Leopard just happens to be on of the 5 that is not quite as depthful as say Tiger or Crane, but is more of a modification.

In the canonical family (Ga, not village) Hung Kuen, Metal techniques from the Wu Xing, southern style include things like Character 10 Splitting Gold (sup yi fun gum) and a lot of cutting-in or cutting out palm techniques. Also other places where the hands are "split" across the body, ie symmetric. I'll try to find some pics to show what I mean.

A lot of "chopping" palm techniques are also classified as Metal, because they are axe like. Cutting motions represent the nature of Metal in the 5 elements (cutting, chopping, splitting, etc). The basic leopard fist is a "cutting" fist, intended to split between ribcage bones, driving wedges into the temple skull bones, etc.

And then Metal has specific connections to Water (creation) and Wood (destruction) technique.

Xing Yi has a different take on Wu Xing (remember the arts didn't create the 5 elements, they borrowed them from existing Chinese theory including things like the I Ching, which has 8). But there are some overlaps in concept, and Metal is one Element of the Wu Xing where Hung Ga and Xing Yi have the same idea (cutting , splitting).

It helps to realize that even without kung fu styles, the Wu Xing elements are baked into Chinese alchemy, geomancy, cleromancy, medicine, etc. So kung fu styles basically use the elements as a way of categorizing movements.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'll have to re-read the thread and see what I haven't posted yet. There's a lot of good stuff from the last time we chatted. Top of my head we went over the proper leopard fist structure, the different strikes, body targets, some Hung Ga basics...I guess it might help to dig up some more southern fist sets, in particular 5 Animal Fist Leopard section. Leopard just happens to be on of the 5 that is not quite as depthful as say Tiger or Crane, but is more of a modification.

In the canonical family (Ga, not village) Hung Kuen, Metal techniques from the Wu Xing, southern style include things like Character 10 Splitting Gold (sup yi fun gum) and a lot of cutting-in or cutting out palm techniques. Also other places where the hands are "split" across the body, ie symmetric. I'll try to find some pics to show what I mean.

A lot of "chopping" palm techniques are also classified as Metal, because they are axe like. Cutting motions represent the nature of Metal in the 5 elements (cutting, chopping, splitting, etc). The basic leopard fist is a "cutting" fist, intended to split between ribcage bones, driving wedges into the temple skull bones, etc.

And then Metal has specific connections to Water (creation) and Wood (destruction) technique.

Xing Yi has a different take on Wu Xing (remember the arts didn't create the 5 elements, they borrowed them from existing Chinese theory including things like the I Ching, which has 8). But there are some overlaps in concept, and Metal is one Element of the Wu Xing where Hung Ga and Xing Yi have the same idea (cutting , splitting).

It helps to realize that even without kung fu styles, the Wu Xing elements are baked into Chinese alchemy, geomancy, cleromancy, medicine, etc. So kung fu styles basically use the elements as a way of categorizing movements.

So would you then classify say a knife palm as metal? As in Chang Kuen? How bout inside circling knife kick?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'll have to re-read the thread and see what I haven't posted yet. There's a lot of good stuff from the last time we chatted. Top of my head we went over the proper leopard fist structure, the different strikes, body targets, some Hung Ga basics...I guess it might help to dig up some more southern fist sets, in particular 5 Animal Fist Leopard section. Leopard just happens to be on of the 5 that is not quite as depthful as say Tiger or Crane, but is more of a modification.

In the canonical family (Ga, not village) Hung Kuen, Metal techniques from the Wu Xing, southern style include things like Character 10 Splitting Gold (sup yi fun gum) and a lot of cutting-in or cutting out palm techniques. Also other places where the hands are "split" across the body, ie symmetric. I'll try to find some pics to show what I mean.

A lot of "chopping" palm techniques are also classified as Metal, because they are axe like. Cutting motions represent the nature of Metal in the 5 elements (cutting, chopping, splitting, etc). The basic leopard fist is a "cutting" fist, intended to split between ribcage bones, driving wedges into the temple skull bones, etc.

And then Metal has specific connections to Water (creation) and Wood (destruction) technique.

Xing Yi has a different take on Wu Xing (remember the arts didn't create the 5 elements, they borrowed them from existing Chinese theory including things like the I Ching, which has 8). But there are some overlaps in concept, and Metal is one Element of the Wu Xing where Hung Ga and Xing Yi have the same idea (cutting , splitting).

It helps to realize that even without kung fu styles, the Wu Xing elements are baked into Chinese alchemy, geomancy, cleromancy, medicine, etc. So kung fu styles basically use the elements as a way of categorizing movements.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Your depth of knowledge in these realms surprises me sometimes.

 

[CMyers0323]

I'll have to re-read the thread and see what I haven't posted yet. There's a lot of good stuff from the last time we chatted. Top of my head we went over the proper leopard fist structure, the different strikes, body targets, some Hung Ga basics...I guess it might help to dig up some more southern fist sets, in particular 5 Animal Fist Leopard section. Leopard just happens to be on of the 5 that is not quite as depthful as say Tiger or Crane, but is more of a modification.

In the canonical family (Ga, not village) Hung Kuen, Metal techniques from the Wu Xing, southern style include things like Character 10 Splitting Gold (sup yi fun gum) and a lot of cutting-in or cutting out palm techniques. Also other places where the hands are "split" across the body, ie symmetric. I'll try to find some pics to show what I mean.

A lot of "chopping" palm techniques are also classified as Metal, because they are axe like. Cutting motions represent the nature of Metal in the 5 elements (cutting, chopping, splitting, etc). The basic leopard fist is a "cutting" fist, intended to split between ribcage bones, driving wedges into the temple skull bones, etc.

And then Metal has specific connections to Water (creation) and Wood (destruction) technique.

Xing Yi has a different take on Wu Xing (remember the arts didn't create the 5 elements, they borrowed them from existing Chinese theory including things like the I Ching, which has 8). But there are some overlaps in concept, and Metal is one Element of the Wu Xing where Hung Ga and Xing Yi have the same idea (cutting , splitting).

It helps to realize that even without kung fu styles, the Wu Xing elements are baked into Chinese alchemy, geomancy, cleromancy, medicine, etc. So kung fu styles basically use the elements as a way of categorizing movements.

Yeah no worries I'm doing the same as well. I agree! Alot of good knowledge was posted so im hoping its helped others like it did for me. Yeah anything is great. It's still so difficult to find anything on leopard. Since then I have come across a tiger book as well as a snake one. Although there not in English so it's going to be harder to work through them haha.

I just happened to reread the part where you mentioned the Wu Xing Metal techniques which I can't seem to find anything on. Oh wow that sounds cool. Is there any pictures of videos on that?

That makes sense since it's usually compared to an ax. Although I wasn't sure if anything else was considered Metal besides chopping like techniques.

Okay so that's cool so it's splitting but not with a downward motion more so splitting like you said. I remember being taught the leopard fist uses shallow penetration force as well not like a tiger claw that just goes right through the target.

That's cool to know. From the basic concept I'm familiar with the destructive and creative cycle but it would be good to learn more than just one beats the other so to speak.


That's good to know also. I've been meaning to also go beyond just the basic knowledge on the elements and to some degree I've learned about it but it still is something I'm trying to research on. I would assume the 8 are similar if not to the same as what bagua speaks about? Yeah it's incredible how deep it goes as well as how wide spread it is. It's been a goal to learn more.

Latly I've been trying to understand how the elements work energetically. So yeah a hammer fist is Metal but is there a way to make a typical jab "metal" by changing it in terms of relaxing more or less or how the strike is done. Not easy but it's still fun to work with

 

[Oily Dragon]

So would you then classify say a knife palm as metal? As in Chang Kuen? How bout inside circling knife kick?

A knife palm probably would, like in the southern 5 Palm Method. Cuts in, cuts out, cuts up.

A kick? Actually I don't know of any kicks that are classified with an element. I could be wrong, have to dig into the notes/library.

Most kicks are Tiger or Crane kicks, ie animals. The elements tend to be fist/arm centric.

If you have a pic or video snippet let me know.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Your depth of knowledge in these realms surprises me sometimes.

Very humbled sir.

I just take very good notes and have had the luxury of great teachers like yourself.

 

[CMyers0323]

A knife palm probably would, like in the southern 5 Palm Method. Cuts in, cuts out, cuts up.

A kick? Actually I don't know of any kicks that are classified with an element. I could be wrong, have to dig into the notes/library.

Most kicks are Tiger or Crane kicks, ie animals. The elements tend to be fist/arm centric.

If you have a pic or video snippet let me know.

In the Xing Yi I do the cross stomp is considered Metal since it follows a similar concept to splitting and hammering techniques. Only now I just thought of and assumed any hammering or stomping kicks might be metal if you wanted to classify them.

Wood is your front stamping/thrusting kick
Earth is sweeping
Water is a hooking
And Fire is a side kick

 

[Oily Dragon]

In the Xing Yi I do the cross stomp is considered Metal since it follows a similar concept to splitting and hammering techniques. Only now I just thought of and assumed any hammering or stomping kicks might be metal if you wanted to classify them.

Wood is your front stamping/thrusting kick
Earth is sweeping
Water is a hooking
And Fire is a side kick

Some southern hammer fist style strikes are considered metal (like splitting Gold, it has metal in its name), but not all. Water and Earth also covers some types of hammer fist, but these depend on how you are hammering (rising backfist vs falling fist-heart strikes with the inside of the hand.

I dug up some pics and clips, I'll get around to editing them tomorrow. It's been a long day, I tend to start going to bed earlier and earlier this time of year.

In the meantime check out this video. This is Southern Shaolin Leopard straight out of the Ng Ying Kuen (5 pattern fist). I have detailed notes on these somewhere...but you can see the main elements, like the "through the sleeve" strikes earlier in the thread that targets the floating rib.

Like I said leopard compared to some other animals like Tiger is light reading. In just southern family styles, for every leopard technique there are like a dozen Tiger ones. Actually there may be more tiger than any other...never actually counted.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Just an update, I was able to pull up about 40 pages of detailed instruction out of Wong Fei Hung literature on Hung Ga Kuen Leopard techniques, including applications. It'll take me a while to distill this down into something digestable.

Trying to find a legible online version of this poster (which I have a torn up paper copy of), because it contains some of the sequences. I'd take a picture and post it but I try to avoid copyright infringement.

As you can see, it's a short section in the Lam family version, naturally sandwiched in between Tiger (Fire) and Crane (Wood) per the Wu Xing framework. And there is some overlap with this section of Leopard and the Shaolin Seven Star Fist.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Shaolin Leopard strike "through the sleeve". In the video it's so fast you won't catch it without knowing it's there.

 

[CMyers0323]

View attachment 30184

Shaolin Leopard strike "through the sleeve". In the video it's so fast you won't catch it without knowing it's there.

View attachment 30182

That makes sense. I've learned varying backfist variations (not Elemental related) for example. Would the rising backfist be a water one? If I get that one right your hammering down but with the part of the hand used in a backfist. I believe it's called a kua in some styles.

I would definitely love to learn more about the splitting gold and the water/Earth hammer techniques if your fine with that. With my Xing Yi sifu passing recently it's not easy to find more "Elemental techniques" other than the stuff I learned.


Thanks I appreciate. I get that rest up. I'm sure we'll all look forward to working through this stuff. I definitely get you on that one. I've been really tired lately so I might just have to do the same with it getting darker out it only makes sense.

Awesome I appreciate the video I'll check it out.

It's unfortunate it is I would assume it might just be due to it not being as popular as tiger or something. I have a cool Tiger Kung Fu book. It's all in Chinese but it's a fairly detailed book.


Glad to hear you were able to get such a huge amount of knowledge down. Take your time it's totally worth the wait. Yeah totally understandable we wouldn't want to cause any issues with posting the stuff. It's a shame since it's not always easy to just go learn or whatever it may be.

That's interesting the Wood is considered crane. I'm not sure I've heard of that before. I was told snake can either be wood or water which I mainly consider it to be water. While the Mantis is considered wood but I love the variety of concepts.

I'll check out these pictures as well. For some reason none of them are loading right. Its all super zoomed in

 

[Oily Dragon]

That makes sense. I've learned varying backfist variations (not Elemental related) for example. Would the rising backfist be a water one? If I get that one right your hammering down but with the part of the hand used in a backfist. I believe it's called a kua in some styles.

Yes, the Water punches in the Five Element Fist are rising backfists (like waves, hence the name) that target the underside of the jaw.

That's interesting the Wood is considered crane. I'm not sure I've heard of that before. I was told snake can either be wood or water which I mainly consider it to be water. While the Mantis is considered wood but I love the variety of concepts.

The canonical order, at least in the Wong Fei Hung system, is always in this order:

Dragon (Earth), Snake (Water), Tiger (Fire), Leopard (Metal), Wood (Crane).

Each of these has its own aspect in Cantonese (Mandarin in parenthesis). These are sometimes called the Ng Jing (5 essences). The ones bolded are the "internal" animals because they draw on the Neijia school methods (Tai Chi, Xing Yi, Bagua, etc). Many people who are only familiar with the northern, or narrower southern arts are unaware that the modern Hung Ga lineage incorporated all of that internal stuff long ago (but good luck getting a Tai Chi teacher to understand this).

Dragon is sun (shen), spirit. The driving force
Snake is hei (qi), energy. Internal energy flow
Tiger is gwot (gu), bone. Structural frame
Leopard is lek (li), strength. Horsepower
Crane is jing (jin), essence. Your inner battery

This is (right to left), Water, Water, Earth, Wood. The two on the right are rising backfists, the 3rd (from the right) strike flows into a falling hammer fist (Earth), and the last is Wood (squeezing) fist or Metal (Separating) depending on how it's done.

Fire:

Wood:

I would definitely love to learn more about the splitting gold

 

[CMyers0323]

Yes, the Water punches in the Five Element Fist are rising backfists (like waves, hence the name) that target the underside of the jaw.


The canonical order, at least in the Wong Fei Hung system, is always in this order:

Dragon (Earth), Snake (Water), Tiger (Fire), Leopard (Metal), Wood (Crane).

Each of these has its own aspect in Cantonese (Mandarin in parenthesis). These are sometimes called the Ng Jing (5 essences). The ones bolded are the "internal" animals because they draw on the Neijia school methods (Tai Chi, Xing Yi, Bagua, etc). Many people who are only familiar with the northern, or narrower southern arts are unaware that the modern Hung Ga lineage incorporated all of that internal stuff long ago (but good luck getting a Tai Chi teacher to understand this).

Dragon is sun (shen), spirit. The driving force
Snake is hei (qi), energy. Internal energy flow
Tiger is gwot (gu), bone. Structural frame
Leopard is lek (li), strength. Horsepower
Crane is jing (jin), essence. Your inner battery

This is (right to left), Water, Water, Earth, Wood. The two on the right are rising backfists, the 3rd (from the right) strike flows into a falling hammer fist (Earth), and the last is Wood (squeezing) fist or Metal (Separating) depending on how it's done.

View attachment 30185
Fire:

View attachment 30191

Wood:

View attachment 30187

View attachment 30186

Ah okay so line a upper cut but done with the back of the Fist then. Thats cool I've see one that looks like the picture attached. Not the best quality since i drew it in like 2 minutes but over and down but back of the hand. It's part of a "water set" but to be fair I think it's more of a external technique to be honest.

Actually I just attached a quick video. The first Technqiue is the "water" back fist although it's just in the set so I guess it's not really exclusive to that. For the one you mentioned is it the 2 or 3 technique I did?

Not sure why I thought I replied to the part about the Earth being Wood but that's cool it's dragon. I've once seen this set up
Earth - Golden Horse
Metal - White Tiger
Water - Black Turtle
Wood - Green Dragon
Fire - Red pheonix


That's really cool. I've had some work in reading about Jing, Qi, and Shen but not much actual work besides Qi. I'd eventually want to work with all three.

That's Interesting how Leopard is Strength and not Bone since usually Iron Palm is put with it but I like it. It's awesome.


Wow this is some good stuff. I'll try these out. It's cool how the Wood is a horizontal fist I was always taught it as a vertical strike. Basically a Wing Chun punch. Unless If they meant the back fist and not the jab.


Ah the splitting gold is sort of just a double hammer fist then?

 

[Oily Dragon]

Ah okay so line a upper cut but done with the back of the Fist then. Thats cool I've see one that looks like the picture attached. Not the best quality since i drew it in like 2 minutes but over and down but back of the hand. It's part of a "water set" but to be fair I think it's more of a external technique to be honest.

Remember Snake is the internal animal, even if Water is its element, that doesn't make Water techniques internal. The rising wave/seven star strikes are definitely external, long range strikes.

You can kind of see Gordon Liu doing some element strikes in this clip, and Water strikes around 16 seconds in.

Actually the whole intro sequence is straight from the Tiger and Crane Paired Fist and at around 0:35, you can see the Character 10 Splitting Gold Fist.

Actually I just attached a quick video. The first Technqiue is the "water" back fist although it's just in the set so I guess it's not really exclusive to that. For the one you mentioned is it the 2 or 3 technique I did?

I don't see any videos.

That's Interesting how Leopard is Strength and not Bone since usually Iron Palm is put with it but I like it. It's awesome.

The Tiger/Leopard, Bone/Strength difference is kind of subtle but the basic idea is that Tiger techniques rely more on the whole body (which you can see here), whereas Leopard is more of an upper body striking format (fast jabs and upper body movement).

Wow this is some good stuff. I'll try these out. It's cool how the Wood is a horizontal fist I was always taught it as a vertical strike. Basically a Wing Chun punch. Unless If they meant the back fist and not the jab.

Wood techniques are squeezing techniques, so if you look at that picture of Wood strikes again, there is a squeeze between the arms as well as a punch.

Ah the splitting gold is sort of just a double hammer fist then?

Yes. Character 10 Splitting Gold starts with inverted "X Guard" (10 in Chinese is "+"), and then the split apart.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Remember Snake is the internal animal, even if Water is its element, that doesn't make Water techniques internal. The rising wave/seven star strikes are definitely external, long range strikes.

You can kind of see Gordon Liu doing some element strikes in this clip, and Water strikes around 16 seconds in.

View attachment 30198

Actually the whole intro sequence is straight from the Tiger and Crane Paired Fist and at around 0:35, you can see the Character 10 Splitting Gold Fist.

View attachment 30197

I don't see any videos.

The Tiger/Leopard, Bone/Strength difference is kind of subtle but the basic idea is that Tiger techniques rely more on the whole body (which you can see here), whereas Leopard is more of an upper body striking format (fast jabs and upper body movement).
View attachment 30195

Wood techniques are squeezing techniques, so if you look at that picture of Wood strikes again, there is a squeeze between the arms as well as a punch.

View attachment 30196

Yes. Character 10 Splitting Gold starts with inverted "X Guard" (10 in Chinese is "+"), and then the split apart.

That is the intro to the first of the Chang Kuen form sets. Splitting Gold.

 

[CMyers0323]

Remember Snake is the internal animal, even if Water is its element, that doesn't make Water techniques internal. The rising wave/seven star strikes are definitely external, long range strikes.

You can kind of see Gordon Liu doing some element strikes in this clip, and Water strikes around 16 seconds in.

View attachment 30198

Actually the whole intro sequence is straight from the Tiger and Crane Paired Fist and at around 0:35, you can see the Character 10 Splitting Gold Fist.

View attachment 30197

I don't see any videos.

The Tiger/Leopard, Bone/Strength difference is kind of subtle but the basic idea is that Tiger techniques rely more on the whole body (which you can see here), whereas Leopard is more of an upper body striking format (fast jabs and upper body movement).
View attachment 30195

Wood techniques are squeezing techniques, so if you look at that picture of Wood strikes again, there is a squeeze between the arms as well as a punch.

View attachment 30196

Yes. Character 10 Splitting Gold starts with inverted "X Guard" (10 in Chinese is "+"), and then the split apart.

I see okay that's cool. I did figure snake was internal it makes sense and every time I read about it it's been referenced and said it's significant to Qi. Yeah I'd definitely want to learn them.


Oh wow now that's cool. I'll be rewatching that then. I'm all for learning any Elemental strike since the common ones are the basic fist strikes in Xing Yi.


That's odd it didn't post there should be a link here
back fist

Okay see that makes more sense I always was taught tiger Is a huge animal and just powers through things and the leopard being smaller is different.


Oh wow I thought it was odd for the placement of the strikes but postures aren't always the best to fully understand the movements. So for this squeezing technique do you use it to capture the opponents arm and hold them in place? I can't say I've heard of squeezing techniques before.


Ah okay sounds like the splitting gold or well the X part is similar to a karate high block but with both hands. If so I'm familiar with it as a longfist form I know does that but even if it does something like splitting gold the arms are alot further out for that one.