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lonekimono10
Guest
Defence against grabs look in that one i just watched it again.
LEarning to take strikes article
- Thread starter Paul Genge
- Start date
"If you have to ask how come, you won't understand why"
First time in training has nothing to do with whether or not something is a fact. There are those who say they have been doing something for 30 years but really they have been doing the same thing for one year 30 times over. And, yes you presume that I don't know Kenpo but yes I have studied it for over 2 decades and did martial arts before that. You don't care what I do but you are criticizing another art based on your own experiences. As for taking your quote, the point was to show you that you are critiquing something it sounds like you have not felt-to reserve judgement. Vladimir comes to your area frequently so there is your opportunity to check it out.
I see you are wearing the same belt as Mr. Parker and I wonder if he would have acted this way, with such fear and insecurity as to lash out in personal attacks. I'll ask Edmund when I speak to him. Guess what I checked it out and I found that what was going on was outside the scope of Kenpo (gasp!).
All I said was that using the criteria you have, from a Kenpo background, you could not evaluate what is going on fairly because there are different principles in use. That is not a character judgement.
Well, ok.
First time in training has nothing to do with whether or not something is a fact. There are those who say they have been doing something for 30 years but really they have been doing the same thing for one year 30 times over. And, yes you presume that I don't know Kenpo but yes I have studied it for over 2 decades and did martial arts before that. You don't care what I do but you are criticizing another art based on your own experiences. As for taking your quote, the point was to show you that you are critiquing something it sounds like you have not felt-to reserve judgement. Vladimir comes to your area frequently so there is your opportunity to check it out.
I see you are wearing the same belt as Mr. Parker and I wonder if he would have acted this way, with such fear and insecurity as to lash out in personal attacks. I'll ask Edmund when I speak to him. Guess what I checked it out and I found that what was going on was outside the scope of Kenpo (gasp!).
All I said was that using the criteria you have, from a Kenpo background, you could not evaluate what is going on fairly because there are different principles in use. That is not a character judgement.
Kenpo_man
Orange Belt
I never implied that systema practitioners couldn't successfully survive a dangerous situation so there is no need to have them tell me about it. In fact I specifically said "I mean no offence to the system and I see some value in the training (I was referring to the exercise in your video)" In the video, people were practicing breathing out with proper timing so they could absorb the blow, were they not? Well that is what I practiced in wado ryu making it very much the same as what I saw being practiced in the video. Wado Ryu, by the way, is a hardstyle/external offshoot of shotokan karate. If it is Kenpo you are reffering to as Soft/Internal, it is actually quite down the middle of soft and hard with a slightly harder approach than a soft one in my opinion. No, I'm not asking for a Ferrari (unless you have an extra one laying around). I am only stating that I believe it is hard to time the breathing when somebody is firing three, four or five strike combinations at you. I think it more vital to learn good movement so the strikes can be made either glancing (i.e. to learn to "roll with the punches") or dodged altogether. Systema has good movement from what I can see. I have nothing but respect for the style itself and not once intended to imply otherwise.Ironman said:
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lonekimono10
Guest
Brad, fear WHAT FEAR?? AND I DID NOT LASH OUT WITH A PERSONAL ATTACKBrad S. said:
all i was saying was the tecq that i watched i was not moved by it "THATS ALL" oh and as far as calling ED JR. you want his # or do you want to call Mrs Parker i'll give that to you also, i think if you called me we can come to a better understanding(it's hard for people to know how you feel in here)
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lonekimono10
Guest
here we go again
I checked the defense angainst grabs video. (Not the topic of this thread but since you bring up the strike in it.) That hammerfist had no power but it wasn't meant to. The exercise was on a nonresisting opponent and was just a training exercise. Systema has a tendency to add light taps similar in some ways to kenpo slap checks. These taps are not in and of themselves major strikes but they confuse the nervous system of the opponent and make the other manipulations more effective.lonekimono10 said:
Jeff
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lonekimono10
Guest
thanks jeff, now if only Brad had said that to me and not all the other crap.
Ahh, I just watched the clip. Kenpodoc had a decent explanation for the movement and it was just an exercise in free movement. I noticed that it wasn't a hammer strike that was delivered, though. To answer the original question, the impact was delivered with the knuckles in a cutting motion rather than pounding with the bottom of the fist. The method for delivering "power" in a strike like that is maximizing the weight of the delivering arm by casting it downward. The goal being to keep enough tension in order for the limb to remain solid, while maintaining enough relaxation so that there is very little muscular tension holding back the weight of the arm. Like a flail, but with more "personality".
I know everyone is always "Rah-rah!" when it comes to delivering "whole body" power, but the reality is that the concept of delivering whole body power is pretty unrealistic when fighting someone who isn't right in front of you and standing still. If you can develop devistating arm punches while standing on one foot and falling backwards, any body involvement thereafter is just gravy.
I know everyone is always "Rah-rah!" when it comes to delivering "whole body" power, but the reality is that the concept of delivering whole body power is pretty unrealistic when fighting someone who isn't right in front of you and standing still. If you can develop devistating arm punches while standing on one foot and falling backwards, any body involvement thereafter is just gravy.
Paul Genge
Green Belt
Spot on...Jackal said:
Paul Genge
This is the "heavy hands" concept which I still do poorly. However when Sonny Puzikas demonstrated it on me it had remarkably effective and painful consequences.Jackal said:
I practice Kenpo not systema but I find their selective tension and relaxation ideas and drills remarkably effective and useful.
Jeff
Moderator Note.
Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.
Rich Parsons
Martial Talk
Super Moderator
SonnyPuzikas
Yellow Belt
Paul posts link to his article about some aspects of developing ability to deal with the strikes. While the subject is very wast and can't possibly be exhausted in one article, Pauls writing is a good primer.
Then an individual with Kenpo background makes a sweeping statement, without understanding the essence of the issue discussed in Pauls article. Adds disclaimer- along the lines of "no disrespect" or something like it...
Then another Kenpo player, who uses a phrase that is very similar to the common saying in Systema ("You have to know how to hold the strike, before you can strike others"- as to the us eof word "hold" instead of "take", "absorb", etc.- different discussion) in his post, cheers the post by the Kenpo comrade (which IMO was lightly challenging in it's nature and wrong in its premises).
Discussion turns to imaginary gravity strike someone noticed in the video with the question- how come there is no body weight- gravity drop to go along with the strike?
Then comes along BradS- Systema instructor with couple decades experience in Kenpo, who is not boasting about it. Refering to the above mentioned phrase he suggests that lack of experience in feeling certain aspects in Systema striking methods could be the problem- trying to see and judge everything through the prizm of knowledge and understanding gained from another art. IMO nothing personal in that statement.
As a response- Kenpo player throws in his baggage (years, belts, etc.), refers to Brad as "son" and suggests that Brad doesn't know what he's talking about... And provides the cell # for more personal contact... Looks little challenging.
And on and on.... :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:
Looks to me like some people want to use their art of choice (Kenpo, BJJ, xyz, etc.) as a measuring stick... While they may have years of experience and deep knowledge in that art, judging another method without spending some time not just watching few clips and reading some forums, but getting to feel it, experiment with it and so on- is little bit ignorant. Regardless of age, years in training and number of stripes on BB. :btg:
Then an individual with Kenpo background makes a sweeping statement, without understanding the essence of the issue discussed in Pauls article. Adds disclaimer- along the lines of "no disrespect" or something like it...
Then another Kenpo player, who uses a phrase that is very similar to the common saying in Systema ("You have to know how to hold the strike, before you can strike others"- as to the us eof word "hold" instead of "take", "absorb", etc.- different discussion) in his post, cheers the post by the Kenpo comrade (which IMO was lightly challenging in it's nature and wrong in its premises).
Discussion turns to imaginary gravity strike someone noticed in the video with the question- how come there is no body weight- gravity drop to go along with the strike?
Then comes along BradS- Systema instructor with couple decades experience in Kenpo, who is not boasting about it. Refering to the above mentioned phrase he suggests that lack of experience in feeling certain aspects in Systema striking methods could be the problem- trying to see and judge everything through the prizm of knowledge and understanding gained from another art. IMO nothing personal in that statement.
As a response- Kenpo player throws in his baggage (years, belts, etc.), refers to Brad as "son" and suggests that Brad doesn't know what he's talking about... And provides the cell # for more personal contact... Looks little challenging.
And on and on.... :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:
Looks to me like some people want to use their art of choice (Kenpo, BJJ, xyz, etc.) as a measuring stick... While they may have years of experience and deep knowledge in that art, judging another method without spending some time not just watching few clips and reading some forums, but getting to feel it, experiment with it and so on- is little bit ignorant. Regardless of age, years in training and number of stripes on BB. :btg:
Kenpo_man
Orange Belt
Obviously, the the first kenpo guy was me%-} . I agree that my statement was "lightly challenging" and I actually intended it to be. What I didn't intend was for the statement to be taken as a dig at the entire art of systema. I was hoping more for an argument/ debate on the value of the type of training being done in the video. In hindsight, the way I worded my first statement ("Good in theory but . . .") was a little more abrasive than it was originally intended to be. I hope nobody here takes me for an opinionated #%$*. I truly respect the ideas of all styles though I may not agree with all of them. I kinda started the storm that took over in this thread and I apologize (a little late in coming) for not thinking harder about my first post before I submitted it.SonnyPuzikas said:
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lonekimono10
Guest
well let me say the other guy is me,yea i know people think that i'm sometimes rude
but got to tell you that i was not being rude here,the only thing i wanted to know was about the "hammer fist" and not droping your bodyweight.
now i see that some people say that is was not a Hammer fist,and thats ok too.
as far as the other stuff goes, (me calling him "son" yes i did,
but it was in no way an attack on this guy, and to voice what kenpo_man said and Mr Parker, "there is good in all martial arts"
oh yes i do have an open mine to all martial arts,
but got to tell you that i was not being rude here,the only thing i wanted to know was about the "hammer fist" and not droping your bodyweight.
now i see that some people say that is was not a Hammer fist,and thats ok too.
as far as the other stuff goes, (me calling him "son" yes i did,
but it was in no way an attack on this guy, and to voice what kenpo_man said and Mr Parker, "there is good in all martial arts"
oh yes i do have an open mine to all martial arts,
