Learning Ninjutsu by Correspondence/DVD course?

[Shidoshi0153]

Actually, that would probably work against you.

That may sound strange, but it is true. The way a karateka punches is very different from the way a Taiji player does the same. And the Silat guy would look at both and say "very nice- but not what I do."

But if you do not have complete mastery of at least one art, and probably more than one, you would look at things and just assume they were all the same.

Take a look at how most of us look at a tree and say "tree." But if you really, really spend time around trees you would know a Birch from a Larch from an Oak. For most of us, it really does not matter. But for those that want to master something, it matters a great deal. It is not the similarities that are important, it is the very subtle differences that need to be discovered to become a master.

You have learned something. That means you have habits and a way of looking at things. Sad to say, it means you have some habits for looking at things. So more than most, you would need someone to stand over you and point out when you were using your old habits when you should be doing it the new way.

Oh, and you might want to check out the following thread.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52867

As you can see by reading the above, the founder of "Impact Ninjutsu" turned tail and ran when asked some very direct questions. Look for post #19 where the following was asked.



The founder of Impact ninjutsu actually ignored it and stoped posting in that thread. Then he started posting in another thread. When the same question was brought up by the same poster, he again decided to ignore the question and flee. It looks like he now would prefer to let others do his marketing for him.

Ok, this thread has come to my attention by a couple of my members, so for their sake I will respond. First, let me explain why I left the forum in the first place. I love rational and reasonable debate. The only catch is that it must be an educated debate to produce any real results. The bottom line is that I attained a 5th dan in the bujinkan and had 17 years of experience in the system. Matter of fact, I have never actually "left" as I never filed any resignation. So I can speak with some authority and knowledge about the bujinkan, the system, etc. Also note, I have never disparaged the bujinkan in any way. I have no anomosity or ill-will, I just wanted to do something different, my own thing. By the mere fact that my antagonizers have NOT taken one lesson or registered for the site for any appropriate length of time, therefore, they are ignorant of Bansenshukai ninjutsu and don't have any basis, other than assumption, for their opinions or comments. What was the point of any further discussion? I saw none, they had their minds made up. So, it was not running or fleeing, it was prioritizing my time for more productive undertakings.

Let me go ahead and answer the question that apparently was posed to me a couple of times. The answer is yes. I could have learned everything from a video that I learned in the academy. That being said, I would have still had to put the information into practice and actually spend time "doing" the material. I could not simply watch a video and miraculously become a proficient officer. That is my honest answer, but somehow I don't think you will believe me since you have your mind made up as to how I should have answered. The bottom line is that everyone learns differently.

About the omote gyaku video. It is a sample class. My kyu ranks last approximately 5 months apiece at two classes a week which equals about 40 classes per kyu. Do you really think that is the only class I offer on omote gyaku? Could anyone teach omote gyaku with all its complexities in 15 minutes? Of course not. Is it my best work? No, but I have not heard any positive comments as to how the class could have been taught better or what it was I did wrong. The fact is, I did nothing wrong, it was an adequate CLASS, not a comprehensive study.

I will just conclude with one more thing. I pride myself in openess and honesty. The bansenshukai takes no TAIJUTSU from the bansenshukai text, only principles. Our taijutsu is based on budo taijutsu, judo, american ju-jitsu, boxing etc. I never have claimed to be a grandmaster, soke, or even a great martial artist. I am what I am and offer what I offer. If you like it, wonderful, if not, good luck to you. The fact is, those who have not taken basenshukai ninjutsu for any length of time should simply stay quiet on the matter. Ignorance is not budo, and definitely not part of the benevolent heart of which Dr. Hatsumi teaches.

 

[Mr. E]

Let me go ahead and answer the question that apparently was posed to me a couple of times. The answer is yes. I could have learned everything from a video that I learned in the academy. That being said, I would have still had to put the information into practice and actually spend time "doing" the material. I could not simply watch a video and miraculously become a proficient officer.

You would have learned at first by watching, just as someone sits and watches a teacher.

But then you would have gone out on the street with a qualified partner or teacher to make sure that you had the stuff down and point out mistakes. That is what happens when you practice things in the dojo under a real teacher.

Video training as you are selling it lets people see, then work out with people just as ignorant as them and then they go out on the street to find out if there is any flaws in what they do at the hands of some street punk.

If you start out physical training without a teacher there to catch the mistakes just as soon as they pop up, you will develop bad habits that you probably will never get rid of.

People that want to learn from videos tend to think they can, because that is what they want. People that want to make money off of selling video courses say that you can, because that is how they will make money. But people that have seen the full depths that a martial art can have almost always agree that if you let someone start practicing the basics of an art without a teacher right there to smack them back on course, they will probably never recover.

This goes double if you have habits gained from another art. I have seen ninjutsu and I have seen aikido. One is not the other. The footwork and ma-ai is different if you have the experience to see it. If you think that experience in one will help the other instead of being a habit that you have to get rid of, you are exactly the type of mentality the guys selling their video wares are looking for.

Oh- and case in point. You do not have to file papers to leave the Bujinkan. If you have not gotten a membership card and/or a shidoshikai card, then I believe you are considered an ex- student.

 

[stephen]

\ any real results. The bottom line is that I attained a 5th dan in the bujinkan and had 17 years of experience in the system. Matter of fact, I have never actually "left" as I never filed any resignation.

So you have a valid shidoshi-kai license for 2007 then?

 

[benkyoka]

About the omote gyaku video. It is a sample class. (-irrelevant statement-) Do you really think that is the only class I offer on omote gyaku? Could anyone teach omote gyaku with all its complexities in 15 minutes? Of course not. Is it my best work? No, but I have not heard any positive comments as to how the class could have been taught better or what it was I did wrong. The fact is, I did nothing wrong, it was an adequate CLASS, not a comprehensive study.

I see. So it was adequate and not wrong where Bansenshukai ninjutsu is concerned.

...if you teach something in the most basic way and you are making basic mistakes, then when you teach something in a more advanced way, your mistakes advance as well.

 

[jks9199]

Ok, this thread has come to my attention by a couple of my members, so for their sake I will respond. First, let me explain why I left the forum in the first place. I love rational and reasonable debate. The only catch is that it must be an educated debate to produce any real results. The bottom line is that I attained a 5th dan in the bujinkan and had 17 years of experience in the system. Matter of fact, I have never actually "left" as I never filed any resignation. So I can speak with some authority and knowledge about the bujinkan, the system, etc. Also note, I have never disparaged the bujinkan in any way. I have no

Yet your site also makes no real mention of the Bujinkan. I can't speak for the validity of what you teach within that context -- but you also fail to mention by name any of the people who have assisted you in translating and adapting or applying the Bansenshukai texts. But, to me, it's your right to do your own thing, and you're straightforward about it being YOUR thing, not someone else's. But you gotta admit; you pushed it pretty hard, too.

Let me go ahead and answer the question that apparently was posed to me a couple of times. The answer is yes. I could have learned everything from a video that I learned in the academy. That being said, I would have still had to put the information into practice and actually spend time "doing" the material. I could not simply watch a video and miraculously become a proficient officer. That is my honest answer, but somehow I don't think you will believe me since you have your mind made up as to how I should have answered. The bottom line is that everyone learns differently.

Yes, everyone learns differently, but reread the way I wrote the question; it was phrased quite carefully:

Let me ask a simple question. Would a web-based training program be an adequate substitute for a police academy and subsequent field training, especially for a new rookie with no prior law enforcement experience? Or would it be lacking something essential for most to succeed?

Perhaps you're one of the few who could learn everything you needed to know to enter FTO by a video or web based program. Most people couldn't; they have enough trouble learning it with an instructor directly in front of them and able to correct them. But I specifically asked would a police academy web program be satisfactory to replace a traditional academy AND FTO, especially for someone with NO law enforcement experience. I'll tell you... If my chief put someone in a cruiser with training like that, and told me to work with them, I'd refuse. I'd be very reluctant to even be an FTO for someone who's "academy" consisted solely of classroom work or interactive web programs. I'd probably insist on doing some scenario training with the academy staff before I'd take them out on the street. Fortunately, I'm confident my chief won't put me in that position. Now, if you, for example, were to come to my state, and pass a video/web based refresher & state orientation program... That's a different question. There's a difference between refining or updating, and initial entry training.

As I said -- your entitled to do your thing. But, at this point, I think the only way you'll be able to prove it works is to produce successful students through web training.

 

[Doc_Jude]

All great points. As for his views on police training, I'm sure that Loren Christensen & Al Arsenault & Mike Young would beg to differ.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

But I specifically asked would a police academy web program be satisfactory to replace a traditional academy AND FTO, especially for someone with NO law enforcement experience.

Strangely enough, that is becoming an increasingly regular occurrence around my parts, which makes me pretty nervous...speaking of which, a couple of weeks ago I took a knife from a certain suspect during the patdown, and handed it to the cops (whom both seemed fairly inexperienced) as soon as they showed up. After that, I figured they had things under control and so I went about my business elsewhere. A couple of days later I received a really PO-ed phone call from my boss who was furious over the fact that I had just "left" the knife lying on the table...

 

[Monadnock]

As I said -- your entitled to do your thing. But, at this point, I think the only way you'll be able to prove it works is to produce successful students through web training.

How in the hell can we universally qualify what a successful student is? Are you suggesting they go out and "prove themselves?"

Sorry, but this is all a pretty sad discussion that is spiralling even further down the toilet.

Maybe people need to get a little old school and just drop in for a visit. That would settle a lot of the keyboard warriors.