Learning by DVDs, eh?

[PrayingMantis]

This is my first post here at Martialtalk, so 'hello and pleased to meet you' to everyone.

Anyway, here we go.

My background in martial arts started a good number of years ago, when I started learning Kung Fu (Shaolin and Mantis), Tai Chi Chuan and Suijao (not sure if that is spelled correctly, as I have never seen it in print) from a family friend. During this training I absolutely fell in love with Mantis style - go figure on my username - but because of life getting in the way, my instructor had to move to another state.

Not finding any Kung Fu Sifu/instructors in my area, I just fell out of martial arts for a long time. A few years ago, at the suggestion of a friend, I joined a local Tae Kwon Do class and stuck with it. Now I am a 1st Dan with the West Michigan Tae Kwon Do Federation (http://wmtkd.freehosting.net/index.html), have my own students and would not trade it for anything in the world.

That being said, I do really miss my old Kung Fu training - and would love to pick it back up in addition to my Tae Kwon Do.

This got me thinking about training with DVDs. Normally, I am not a fan of this practice - lack of direct interaction, the high percentage of CRAP that is out there, etc. - so that is why I am putting forth the question here.

What do you all think of the practice of learning via tapes/DVDs?

More specifically, has anyone had any experience with Sifu Funk (http://www.mantiskungfu.com/)? This second question would probably be more appropriately handled via PM, I am thinking.

Any feedback will help, thanks in advance!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think that it is pretty hard (if not impossible) to do unless you have an instructor regularly checking on you. You could easily teach yourself the wrong way to do something and have that bad habit for years. If you are interested in a specific instructor then you should probably travel to them and spend a weekend or week (vacation) learning how they do things and then if they have DVD's for sale you will have a frame of referance to look at them. Good luck.

 

[michaeledward]

Welcome ...

There are several threads on the board about learning from DVD. If you search, you will find them.

Generally, the consesus seems to be that tapes and DVD's can be a good supplement to training. But you need an instructor as the primary source, and for review and feedback.

 

[pstarr]

Yes, they can act as good supplements but definitely not as a primary method of learning...

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I think that it is pretty hard (if not impossible) to do unless you have an instructor regularly checking on you. You could easily teach yourself the wrong way to do something and have that bad habit for years. If you are interested in a specific instructor then you should probably travel to them and spend a weekend or week (vacation) learning how they do things and then if they have DVD's for sale you will have a frame of referance to look at them. Good luck.

So true.

The suggestion of attending classes or workshops THEN purchasing quality DVD's on the system is a good one. However; I do think an independent student can progress with DVD training in an art in which they ALREADY have significant prior training - for example, I bet I could learn the corresponding WTF hyung to the ITF hyungs I already learned via good DVD. I strongly doubt I could learn BBT or Aikido from one, though.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thank you guys for your feedback - you are pretty much agreeing with what I already thought about learning from DVDs...

...I just was asking out of a little bit of desparation (I really want to train Mantis again); also I was not sure if I was being a bit elitist about the whole subject of tapes/DVDs.

Apparently I was not. :idunno:

But again, thanks!

 

[Aikironin]

Well keep in mind this, Training with DVD's is like Porn, no one admits to it, but we all somehow know about it. Seriously though, I would imagine that a lot of practitioners have viewed, bought or owned some sort of MA DVD. I am secure enough to admit it. Although I will be honest and say I had been training for like 10 years before I really got into it, and I have only really viewed those within the arts I train in. I would never imagine that after doing Judo for 15 years I could watch mantis style Gung fu, and delude myself into thinking I could effectively incorporate it into my training.

 

[charyuop]

Hey I admit to porn....it is the best thing lol

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

So true.

The suggestion of attending classes or workshops THEN purchasing quality DVD's on the system is a good one. However; I do think an independent student can progress with DVD training in an art in which they ALREADY have significant prior training - for example, I bet I could learn the corresponding WTF hyung to the ITF hyungs I already learned via good DVD. I strongly doubt I could learn BBT or Aikido from one, though.

You might be able to learn the movements but have an incomplete picture on how to apply them. Or worse yet you could learn the movements incorrectly and therefore be unable to apply them. However an advanced student can pick up things easier then someone just beginning. That is because they have a greater referance point and an understanding of the principles and concepts of movement so I do understand what you are saying.

 

[Cryozombie]

More specifically, has anyone had any experience with Sifu Funk (http://www.mantiskungfu.com/)? This second question would probably be more appropriately handled via PM, I am thinking.

Any feedback will help, thanks in advance!

Since Sifu Funk is a 7 star mantis instructor you could maybe PM 7starmantis, hes one of the Asst Admins here and ask if he knows of him... Dunno if he will, but its worth a shot eh?

 

[Drac]

The others have beat me to saying anything useful so I just say congrats on your first post...Read and heed the above posts...

 

[IWishToLearn]

I disagree with a complete novice studying from video, however for those with significant previous experience - it's possible.

 

[windwalker]

Greetings Praying Mantis,

I recently moved to an area that is very limited in MA schools. I had trained for five years in Kenpo before moving. Last year I rented a DVD on the Tiger and Crane form. I was merely wanting to see what it looked like but right after I viewed it I was layed off work. I figured it might be a positive use of my time to at least try to do the form. It helped relieve the stress of being out of work.

I realized I could do it, but it took a lot of self motivation and extreme attention to detail. The videos I now use are Wing Lam Hung Gar. So far I have found them to be excellent, unfortunately they don't teach Praying Mantis. I would look for videos that show the movements in detail and describe the hand and foot positions in detail. They should also have applications included so you know what it is you are doing in the movements.

I would find a partner to practice the applications with. I practice with my teenage son. You should have seen the look we got from a neighbor while we were doing the Tiger/Crane sparring set! I would also video yourself doing the form or movement and compare what you are doing with the DVD. Some schools will revue them if you send them in (for a fee). Treat yourself as if you were your own student.

IMHO since you already know how to defend yourself, this might be a good way to keep your interest alive. My former instructor always said that we should never stop learning.

All this being said, I argee with the other posters. Video is not as good as having an instructor who can guide you through the movements. Since this thread is in beginners corner, I would caution that this is no way for a beginner to learn. Beginners don't have the training to see the subtleties of movement and position, nor the body awareness to know if they are performing correctly. I also agree that the style shouldn't be radically different than the style you've had training in. For me, Hung Gar was not too great a leap from Kenpo. The Tiger and Crane form was originally part of the system. I still practice the Kenpo I learned but this new material keeps me challanged, at least until I can find a good school.

 

[kingkong89]

hello i am also a 1st dan in martial arts. i have seen a lot of things and learnibng form video or dvd's is not har you just want to actually learn. i have a friend of mine who also 1st dan learned a katan kata off of a movie. i have also learned kung fu from movies and have several friends that study the art.

 

[Andrew Green]

It really depends, some people can pull it off, most can't.

Same as other skills, some people can teach themselves to play a instrument, others teach themselves and make people cringe with there "playing"

Some people can teach themselves how to dance, others are "rythmically challenged" like me

It's going to be hard, and without others people training with you, near impossible to get very good, but if it's something you enjoy, go for it. But treat it as what it is, a self-taught hobby, and nothing more.

 

[Don Roley]

When you start out, you can't learn from videos. Period.

There are habits that you need to have pointed out and corrected when you start. You don't know you do them, and you don't know what is good and what it bad.

Once you develop the habits of a style, then you can pick up little things from that style from videos. But to start out without someone to catch you when you make mistakes you are not concious of, you build them into you. This can happen even later on, but it a thousand times worse at the beggining.

There are people who have spent their entire career from videos and gotten black belts from them. Every one I know of who has seriously strikes me as seeming to be like Napolean Dynamite's younger brother at the Rex Kwon Do dojo. From where I stand, they are walking examples of what it wrong in the martial arts, but their numbers seem to be rising due to the ease of getting slip shod instruction. Ask them, and they will say they are good. I disagree.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Unfortunately, thus starts the longstanding debate. Yet again.

 

[arnisador]

Unfortunately, thus starts the longstanding debate. Yet again.

Well, this is a pretty one-sided debate...the vast majority of practitioners seem to think that learning by video is principally helpful as am adjunct for those with experience, and is not helpful for beginners.

 

[IWishToLearn]

New approaches are quite often panned, and accepted later. I only have a problem with broadly applied statements - it's too much like stereotyping.

 

[Fu_Bag]

I think videos and books are great supplements. They're also fine for trying to pickup ideas and attitudes. I wouldn't use them as a sole training source, however. They can also serve as valuable collaboration and verification tools to clarify a point that was made at a certain training session.

Personally, I'm a little wary of people who say that students should stay away from books and videos produced by the head(s) of whatever art is being studied. It's very easy for an instructor to influence their students and, if the instructor isn't on the level, the students can be lead down the wrong path for years and years without being exposed to "the good stuff". If anything, using books and videos as training supplements can aid in quality control of your training.

I don't think anyone wants to waste training time with someone whose movement and philosophy isn't, at the very least, similar to the head of the art.