Land your foot inside of your opponent's foot

[drop bear]

It depends how I ended up there, I suppose. What I picture when I think of being there doesn't look much like the picture (I'm unlikely to be that wide when moving, for starters). If they moved as I did to put me in that position, then I'm probably striking as they are moving, and striking to take structure. If I can disrupt structure, I'm less likely to lose at that point. Otherwise, I probably entered to that spot because of a specific opening that was available, so I'm already taking structure when I get there.

Not really. Just mechanically. Because the outside foot puts you to the blind side a bit. Which makes the rear hand closer to the target for outside foot guy. And further for inside foot guy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not really. Just mechanically. Because the outside foot puts you to the blind side a bit. Which makes the rear hand closer to the target for outside foot guy. And further for inside foot guy.

Agreed at the point of being there. I'm considering the dynamic situation. I wouldn't enter just to be in that position, so there would be some advantage in me going there. If my entrance takes structure, much of that mechanical advantage is academic (they won't have structure to deliver any power on a strike). Of course, if I screw up my entry, I've just walked into power alley.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Lets use outside and inside foot. I am getting confused.

But the outside foot is mostly going to be the better sweep unless you do some sort off massive inner reap.

The outside foot also negates his cross while helping yours.

What do you mean "outside foot" and "inside foot"? Are you talking about "uniform stance" (same leg forward), or "mirror stance"(different leg forward)?

Are you talking about

1. your "inside leg" next to your opponent's "outside leg"?
2. your opponent's "inside leg" next to your "outside leg"?
3. your "inside leg" next to your opponent's "inside leg"?
4. your "outside leg" next to your opponent's "outside leg"?

There are only 4 combinations.

 

[drop bear]

What do you mean "outside foot" and "inside foot"? Are you talking about "uniform stance" (same leg forward), or "mirror stance"(different leg forward)?

Are you talking about

1. your "inside leg" next to your opponent's "outside leg"?
2. your opponent's "inside leg" next to your "outside leg"?
3. your "inside leg" next to your opponent's "inside leg"?
4. your "outside leg" next to your opponent's "outside leg"?

There are only 4 combinations.

mirror stance. foot fighting.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed at the point of being there. I'm considering the dynamic situation. I wouldn't enter just to be in that position, so there would be some advantage in me going there. If my entrance takes structure, much of that mechanical advantage is academic (they won't have structure to deliver any power on a strike). Of course, if I screw up my entry, I've just walked into power alley.

Ok. how would you be taking advantage of that inside position?

what are you setting up exactly?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

mirror stance. foot fighting.

I see, So your "mirror stance outside foot" is the same as my "mirror stance line up my front foot with my opponent's both feet". When those 3 feet line up as one straight line, you don't have to worry about your opponent's back hand "cross".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok. how would you be taking advantage of that inside position?

what are you setting up exactly?

If you use your momentum and step "deeply" between your opponent's legs (into his "front door") that will be a different strategy.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Someday when one or the other of us makes the short journey, I'll want you to show me some of those. I'm curious how I'd naturally react to them, and whether I'd recognize the pressure early enough to have a response.

Sure thing. Make a list. I can only do 2 of the techniques with you during free sparring. The others are too risky, because if I put pressure when your leg is turned a certain way it could tear up some ligaments. Those you'll have to experience in demo mode.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. how would you be taking advantage of that inside position?

what are you setting up exactly?

It depends what his position is. On a skilled fighter, there's not going to be much. On someone not so skilled, there can be opportunities to take structure. If I can catch him reaching with his back hand, holding back the back leg (so an over-reach on a punch with the rear hand), I may be able to slip in and attach to him. If he has over-reached with the front hand, I might get into that position slipping the punch, just before I pivot (hopefully attaching to him during the pivot). I could also be stepping in to get my leg against his to take structure as I step in (though that doesn't mitigate the punch as much, so I need good cover on that one). I might be coming in to take an opening on his ribs (again, not likely to be that open on a skilled fighter). Or, just as an entry move to go through his head (which assumes he's doing something stupid like dropping his hands too low to cover his body or just over-committing to something). Most of it would be entering on a transition, so that position wouldn't be held at all - just a pivot point.

There's not a lot that would bring me into that position unless they screw up. I've seen uncoordinated people create some odd openings there, so I suspect a drunk person might do the same, though that's not really something I have evidence for.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sure thing. Make a list. I can only do 2 of the techniques with you during free sparring. The others are too risky, because if I put pressure when your leg is turned a certain way it could tear up some ligaments. Those you'll have to experience in demo mode.

We'd need to play with all of them in demo mode first, anyway, to make sure my "natural" reaction doesn't do something bad (which wouldn't take much with my Crappy Knees™).

 

[JowGaWolf]

We'd need to play with all of them in demo mode first, anyway, to make sure my "natural" reaction doesn't do something bad (which wouldn't take much with my Crappy Knees™).

lol. demo mode it is.
Here's a preview of what it looks like .. Just kidding it's no where near this bad, but the drop is just as quick and the concept is the same. Once the structure is broken the legs won't be able to hold the body. Hopefully the person in the video is was o.k. It looked really painful

 

[Dylan9d]

That sacrifice move is called "shin bite".

If you can use your shin bone to press down the inside of your opponent's leg, you will have advantage.

This is not exclusive to CMA in Indonesian martial arts this is used alot together with Sapu and Beset.

And yeah my hands would be faster than his "shin bite", a "shin bite" shown in the picture is a nice trainingscenario but very unrealistic.

 

[Transk53]

When I was a kid, I was told that I should not walk

- in front of a cow, or
- behind a horse.

Of course the risk can be both ways. But if I don't have a horn like a cow, or strong leg like a horse has, I'll try to avoid those situation.

Between the two, a cow is more a cow is more tolerant.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is not exclusive to CMA in Indonesian martial arts this is used alot together with Sapu and Beset.

And yeah my hands would be faster than his "shin bite", a "shin bite" shown in the picture is a nice trainingscenario but very unrealistic.

I'm not familiar with the specific technique that he showed in the picture and I train variations of it. lol. All of mine are done from horse or bow stance. The picture of the shin bite that he shows looks as if it was done after a successful foot hook (where someone pulls your lead lead forwards using their foot.). If that's the case then what we are looking at is similar to what I do at the :24 mark but instead of hooking and pulling the leg to the side the guy in the picture pulls the leg forward. I pull the leg to the side because that was my only option based on the position that I was in. If I was in the position to pull the leg forward then I would have an opportunity to do the shine bite.

if my assumption is correct then the foot hook and pull will stop any punch that is on it's way. You have to be careful with the foot hook and pull because it's easy to pull the groin with it. The one that I did at the :24 mark was me being kind and not wanting to hurt my sparring partner.

 

[frank raud]

Depends how hard you hit them

If I'm standing in the range like on the first picture i'll be raining down blows on you non stop, don't think you will feel the need to scoop my foot.

So, no one can counter when you are striking? Damn son!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And yeah my hands would be faster than his "shin bite", a "shin bite" shown in the picture is a nice trainingscenario but very unrealistic.

IMO, you have to use your

- arms to deal with your opponent's arms,
- leg to deal with his leg.

 

[JowGaWolf]

IMO, you have to use your

- arms to deal with your opponent's arms,
- leg to deal with his leg.

I don't like this one. It looks awkward and not balanced which tells me that something isn't right. I'm not seeing the effectiveness of it. If the contact is high enough on the shin then it's going to be effective. If the contact is too low then it won't be. For example. The first attempt is working because I can see how the other guy responds to the technique. You will also notice that the contact much higher almost right into the knee. The second and 3rd looks like things are a little jammed up as if the other person is countering the attempt. If you hook the heel pull then do the technique then it'll take very little actually knock your partner down.

I also don't like the entry for the technique. The moment your hands touch mine, I'm going to move. I seeing possible hooks to counter the attempted arm grab.

I know the technique itself is effective. I just think there is something missing. All of what I said will make sense to anyone who tries the technique as shown in the video. If you hook that lead leg, give it a pull and then do the "shin bite" you will see that it's more effective. I'm also thinking the stances are too high. Not every technique can work in both a high and low stance. Some techniques should be done in a lower stance and I think this is one of them. Proof of this is that you can see the guy in the long pants use a lower stance and he seems more stable.

The only thing that I really like about this is very basic "You always have to deal with the lead hand first" Someone who knows how to work the lead hand will make you pay dearly for not addressing the lead hand.

Thanks for the video.

 

[Dylan9d]

I'm not familiar with the specific technique that he showed in the picture and I train variations of it. lol. All of mine are done from horse or bow stance. The picture of the shin bite that he shows looks as if it was done after a successful foot hook (where someone pulls your lead lead forwards using their foot.). If that's the case then what we are looking at is similar to what I do at the :24 mark but instead of hooking and pulling the leg to the side the guy in the picture pulls the leg forward. I pull the leg to the side because that was my only option based on the position that I was in. If I was in the position to pull the leg forward then I would have an opportunity to do the shine bite.

if my assumption is correct then the foot hook and pull will stop any punch that is on it's way. You have to be careful with the foot hook and pull because it's easy to pull the groin with it. The one that I did at the :24 mark was me being kind and not wanting to hurt my sparring partner.

The thing I'm seeing at the .24 mark is someone trying to execute a sweep, but getting way out of balance whilst doing it. It's not as easy as people think.

So, no one can counter when you are striking? Damn son!

You probably can't.......Happy with that answer "son"

 

[JowGaWolf]

The thing I'm seeing at the .24 mark is someone trying to execute a sweep,

It wasn't a sweep. It was a failed /countered foot hook. Here's what happened and why it failed. I went in for a foot hook with the purpose of pulling his lead lead forward.
I failed at it because of bad aim (my foot lands high above the ankle), Bad timing (I tried to do the technique while he was cutting an angle). My sparring partner was trying to punch then shuffle backwards at an angle. Because of that angle that he took, I was no longer able to pull that leg to me. As he was coming out of the movement for the angle cut, he just simply pulled his leg back and it pulled my leg out to the left. If you were to see an original clip you will actually see the look of amazement on his face that I was on the ground. In reality, it was a fluke on his part, he moved at the right time, in the right direction and it destroyed my plan A. On my part, it was bad timing and the reality of sparring / fighting. Sometimes your opponent will move in ways that you don't expect. The only thing that I did right was keep my eyes on him after the fall, which should be a habit for people, just in case someone what to soccer kick heads that day.

When I make videos I try to show my failed attempts as well as my successful attempts. The :24 mark that you pointed out is a good example, of how it's possible hook the foot even if a punch is coming in.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IMO, you have to use your

- arms to deal with your opponent's arms,
- leg to deal with his leg.

Usually, though not always. Legs can be used to break structure (which will reduce the arms' utility). Arms can be used to shift their center, making a leg inaccessible as a weapon.