Kung fu and Tai Chi

[Tony]

I've been thinking about doing Tai Chi mainly for stress relief and relaxation but as I do Kung Fu I thought it might help me with my postures and flexibility.
What does everyone here think?

 

[redfang]

You're right, tai chi is not my primary art, but I have been practicing yang style for a little while now. I get an excellent stretch (Mostly during our warm up exercizes) and find that the practice is good for postures, leg strength, balance and focus as well.

 

[Matt Stone]

It is this approach to Taijiquan that is the primary contributing factor to its ongoing decline as a reputable, respectable martial art.

If you want to stretch and become more flexible, don't dilute another art to do it... Try stretching and flexibility exercises.

Taijiquan, regardless of style, is an art intended for fighting, not for developing your inner peace loving hippie.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I think it will help you with your other arts in terms of thinking about what you do with your body, how to align it, how to use yourself effectively.

Or maybe that's the sleep deprivation talking.

 

[pete]

It is this approach to Taijiquan that is the primary contributing factor to its ongoing decline as a reputable, respectable martial art.

i wouldn't assume any decline, ya just gotta know where to look, and what to look for. i do agree that there is a ton of stuff out there that's not only lacking as a martial art, but also downright detrimental as a health practice, and questionable as a spiritual device.

If you want to stretch and become more flexible, don't dilute another art to do it... Try stretching and flexibility exercises.

funny, i thought that "stretching" is the antithesis to tai chi's "expanding"

Taijiquan, regardless of style, is an art intended for fighting, not for developing your inner peace loving hippie.

yeah...that's what the good ole grateful dead and arlo guthrie records are for...

seriously, i train in tai chi and kenpo, not sure anymore which is my primary art???, but have found improved fluidity, balance and positional strength since applying tai chi principles. as dr chapel has said, kenpo is tai chi.

pete

 

[Matt Stone]

as dr chapel has said, kenpo is tai chi.

I've argued that with Mr. Chapel before...

In fairness, I've never done Kenpo, so I can't comment on that. However, having studied Xingyi, Taiji and Bagua for a while, having spoken with quite a few people from Hung Ga and Kenpo backgrounds (who all say that Kenpo stemmed from Hung Ga in the first place), I simply can't see how Hung Ga -> Kenpo = Taiji.

The connection just isn't happening for me.

Whatever. Think what you like.

 

[Tony]

Well I basically thought that Tai Chi would help me to relax and also help me with my Kung fu postures. Because it seems that I'm in a bit of a slump right now as I feel I can't do anything right. I have good flexibility but my forms need a lot of work, my postures aren't low or deep enough and I get totally flustered when I have to perform in front of the class.

 

[pete]

...having spoken with quite a few people from Hung Ga and Kenpo backgrounds (who all say that Kenpo stemmed from Hung Ga in the first place), I simply can't see how Hung Ga -> Kenpo = Taiji.

Not having trained in Hung Ga, i can't comment. The history of Kenpo, as i understand, stems from Chuan Fa which is the purely martial component of Tai Chi Chuan.

Just as some may experience a lack of "Chuan" or "yang" in their Tai Chi, I've experienced a lack of the internal, "yin" elements in my Kenpo... and since the two arts are derived from the same source, the principles are complimentary.

Well I basically thought that Tai Chi would help me to relax... my forms need a lot of work

again, Tony, i am not in a position to comment on Kung Fu, but please remember that learning an art like Tai Chi will require dedication, time and practice... which will translate into time not spent practicing your Kung Fu forms, and possibly regressing a bit. assuming you have other responsibilities outside your ma training, of course.

Its not a quick fix! but it works for me!

the key is to find the right Tai Chi teacher, one who can make the subtle corrections in posture, movement, and help you develop your center. Be sure that the teacher can instruct you in the martial elements, applications and fighting tactics... not just form and pushing hands.

most importantly, first ask yourself if you have the time and desire to open yourself up to another wonderful, complete martial art.

pete

 

[Tony]

Hi Pete

Thanks! so do you think Tai chi would help me relax as thats one of the main things I want to achieve and doesn't Kung Fu and Tai Chi compliment each other? Anyway thanks again for your advice.


Tony

 

[lvwhitebir]

Combining Tai Chi with any art is surely a plus. It helps you do things differently, paying more attention to your posture and body mechanics. It puts a whole different spin on how you practice and perform your Kung Fu or whatever.

WhiteBirch

 

[Matt Stone]

Not having trained in Hung Ga, i can't comment.

I haven't trained in it either... Yet. There is a school nearby that I am likely going to join in September (funds are committed right now, but I can afford it after August).

The history of Kenpo, as i understand, stems from Chuan Fa which is the purely martial component of Tai Chi Chuan.

Chuan Fa is a seperate art... Taijiquan is Taijiquan, and all of its components are purely martial... It is the watering down of Taijiquan by alleged "instructors" who haven't the foggiest notion of how to apply Taijiquan for fighting, or worse yet the ones that think it is solely a fitness/health regime, that makes people consider using it as some kind of training adjunct.

Just as some may experience a lack of "Chuan" or "yang" in their Tai Chi, I've experienced a lack of the internal, "yin" elements in my Kenpo...

What do you mean by this? A lack of "chuan?" Please, stick to English. The Asian language terms of martial arts are so poorly understood and mistranslated that perhaps staying away from them entirely is a good idea to keep this conversation going...

and since the two arts are derived from the same source, the principles are complimentary.

Again, I have only viewed Kenpo, but from what I've seen it looks absolutely nothing like Taijiquan in application and practice...

again, Tony, i am not in a position to comment on Kung Fu, but please remember that learning an art like Tai Chi will require dedication, time and practice... which will translate into time not spent practicing your Kung Fu forms, and possibly regressing a bit.

Nicely played. I am still trying to understand how learning another art, another discipline entirely, one that is completely different from the one currently being trained (and I'm still wondering what kind of "kung fu" Tony is studying... That's like saying "I play sports," or "I drive vehicles." What kind???), is necessarily going to help Tony develop his abilities in the former art...

"I'm studying Taekwondo so my wrestling will be better." The logic fails entirely.

 

[Tony]

I haven't trained in it either... Yet. There is a school nearby that I am likely going to join in September (funds are committed right now, but I can afford it after August).



Chuan Fa is a seperate art... Taijiquan is Taijiquan, and all of its components are purely martial... It is the watering down of Taijiquan by alleged "instructors" who haven't the foggiest notion of how to apply Taijiquan for fighting, or worse yet the ones that think it is solely a fitness/health regime, that makes people consider using it as some kind of training adjunct.



What do you mean by this? A lack of "chuan?" Please, stick to English. The Asian language terms of martial arts are so poorly understood and mistranslated that perhaps staying away from them entirely is a good idea to keep this conversation going...



Again, I have only viewed Kenpo, but from what I've seen it looks absolutely nothing like Taijiquan in application and practice...



Nicely played. I am still trying to understand how learning another art, another discipline entirely, one that is completely different from the one currently being trained (and I'm still wondering what kind of "kung fu" Tony is studying... That's like saying "I play sports," or "I drive vehicles." What kind???), is necessarily going to help Tony develop his abilities in the former art...

"I'm studying Taekwondo so my wrestling will be better." The logic fails entirely.

Hi Matt

I study Shaolin Long fist Kung fu which contains aspects of all the 5 animals, Preying Mantis and Eagle Claw. There is a quite a lot fo emphasis on deep low stances, quick movements and agility. And I think Tai Chi would help especially with my stances and relaxing which would allow me to deliver strikes faster due to being more relaxed and not tense like I usually am. I think doing things slowly would allow me to assess how my techniques need to be done and improve my form.

 

[pete]

It is the watering down of Taijiquan by alleged "instructors" who haven't the foggiest notion - Matt Stone

yeah, i wouldn't say it so negatively...different strokes...

it goes both ways too, there are some tai chi orgs, schools, instructors, etc... that have eliminated all thing martial, and teach only part of the art. if the students understand this is what they are signing up for, and that is what they desire, who are we to judge.

the other side of the coin is the proliferation of extreme tai chi, combat tai chi, cardio tai chi, and all these newly developed systems by 21st century grandmasters combining tai chi, pa kua, hsing-yi, shaolin, etc etc, to the point of eliminating or compromising their tai chi...

but if that' what you want... go for it.

pete

 

[Xequat]

Grandmaster Sin The of Shaolin-do has incorporated a great deal of Tai Chi in the Shaolin art at the higher levels. Eacj art has its own strengths and weaknesses, so for some people, a combination would be good; for others, maybe just one grappling/bar fighting style is good.

The key IMHO is to find a style and make it your own. If you're weak on kicks, then maybe add a TKD class or something. If weak on balance, maybe take a Taiji class, or even a yoga class, which, of course, isn't a very martial art.

 

[AnimEdge]

i wouldnt mind learning Tai Chi but i dont know of any schools, so the only place i can think of is gound to some park and doing it with the group of older people, whitch...kinda makes it less kool

After my Ninjutsu or maybe even during depending on money i woudl like to learn kung fu, manly becouse i just want to learn how it is done

 

[brothershaw]

From my understanding of tai chi praciticing it can lead to better control of the body,in addition to improved awareness, sensitivity, and relaxation, without taking into account learning the martial applications. So learning tai chi can help you become better at the original art you study practice. However the time spent studying tai chi will take away from or cut into the time you spend studying your other art. Then add to that if you are not learing tai chi from the same teacher, or if he doenst know you are studying tai chi, when he sees it creeping into the stuff he teaches you he will probably try to "correct it". Which in some cases may be good other cases bad. Not to mention you have to find a good tai chi teacher which could take a while. Like any martial art not all teachers are good or can teach, and even after finding one, you may after awhile realize you need to find someone else.