KT:Trying to understand what I'm learning

[Clark Kent]

Trying to understand what I'm learning
By Mike De Lucia - 12-08-2010 06:48 PM
Originally Posted at: KenpoTalk
====================

Hello, all!

I've been doing some research into the style of Kenpo I'm currently practicing, but I've still got a long way to go. My senseis don't really know a lot more about the background of it than I do, but I thought some folks here might be able to help fill in some blanks.

Some of what I (think) I know so far:

The kenpo I'm learning at Fivestar Martial Arts is descended from Kyoshi Steve LaVallee's style (as it existed back in about 1999 or 2000 - prior to adding a lot of the MMA stuff). LaVallee originally trained under Master Lee Thompson at a local dojo (here in Liverpool, NY) that was, at the time, called Tracy Kenpo (LaVallee bought the dojo and eventually renamed it). I believe I've been able to confirm that Thompson did train under Al Tracy (I found the name on a list on Tracy's site of black belts he'd promoted. Hard to be certain it's the same guy, though, given the commonness of the name).

So one might expect that what I'm learning now would bear a lot of similarity to the Tracy style - at least the way Tracy Kenpo looked back in the early 70s. From what little I've seen, however, it doesn't. Like Parker Kenpo, the Tracy style seems to have a lot of techniques (kata?) with names like "Parting the Weeds" and "Spinning from the Sun." In my dojo, our kata have fairly mundane names like "Short One" and "Long One." Yet when I search Youtube with those names I do indeed find videos of other kenpo practitioners, seemingly with no direct relation to LaVallee or his lineage, who are practicing very similar (if usually slightly more complex) versions of the same kata with the same name. When I look up the individuals, they often seem to be Parker Kenpo devotees.

So there seems to be a disconnect between the Tracy style that Kyoshi LaVallee learned in the mid-70s and what I'm learning today. Enough so that despite my research I'm confused about the style I'm practicing - what to call it, where it came from, etc.

Can anybody here add some clarity to this tangled web?


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[matt rafferty]

I study kenpo under Grandmaster Jim Mitchell, a personal protege' of Ed Parker,Sr., teaching the Mitchell system. I am a brown belt, so any black belts reading this feel free to correct me. In the Mitchell system we refer to our techniques with understandable terminology. For example, many traditional kenpo systems have a technique on their yellow belt list called "Lone Kimono." Our equivalent is "Lone Lapel Grab." You mentioned "Parting the Reeds," we have "Parting Arms."

My instructors have explained the naming of our techniques as a matter of easier understanding. For example, what does Lone Kimono convey to the average cheese puff eating, video gaming American guy who walks in off the street looking for a yellow belt? Maybe he recognizes a kimono as typical 19th century eastern world attire...maybe not. But Lone Lapel Grab conveys the idea of someone grabbing one side of your upper torso, more specifically a grab to the area where a lapel of a jacket would be positioned. That, for me, makes it very easy to visualize the attack, and then to easily recall the self-defense technique from the system. Another thing I have noticed from my researching other more traditional systems is the multiplicity of names for body parts. An arm I have seen referred to as a twig and a reed. Instead of dealing with this confusion Jim Mitchell has renamed techniques. So instead of Snapping Twig and Parting the Reeds, we have Snapping Arm and Parting Arms. Anyway, I appreciate your thirst for knowledge. Kenpo rocks and I love it.

One of my instructors, Phil Retana, says "Keep sharpening your axe."

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

I study kenpo under Grandmaster Jim Mitchell, a personal protege' of Ed Parker,Sr., teaching the Mitchell system. I am a brown belt, so any black belts reading this feel free to correct me. In the Mitchell system we refer to our techniques with understandable terminology. For example, many traditional kenpo systems have a technique on their yellow belt list called "Lone Kimono." Our equivalent is "Lone Lapel Grab." You mentioned "Parting the Reeds," we have "Parting Arms."

My instructors have explained the naming of our techniques as a matter of easier understanding. For example, what does Lone Kimono convey to the average cheese puff eating, video gaming American guy who walks in off the street looking for a yellow belt? Maybe he recognizes a kimono as typical 19th century eastern world attire...maybe not. But Lone Lapel Grab conveys the idea of someone grabbing one side of your upper torso, more specifically a grab to the area where a lapel of a jacket would be positioned. That, for me, makes it very easy to visualize the attack, and then to easily recall the self-defense technique from the system. Another thing I have noticed from my researching other more traditional systems is the multiplicity of names for body parts. An arm I have seen referred to as a twig and a reed. Instead of dealing with this confusion Jim Mitchell has renamed techniques. So instead of Snapping Twig and Parting the Reeds, we have Snapping Arm and Parting Arms. Anyway, I appreciate your thirst for knowledge. Kenpo rocks and I love it.

One of my instructors, Phil Retana, says "Keep sharpening your axe."

Ya I say thats a more favorable way of looking at the name changes.
The truth I think is closer to the fact that when Jim Mitchell and Ed Parker parted ways in the mid 80s that Jim Mitchell was not wanting to mess with copyrights, and trademarks, and changed the names of the techniques so that there would be no legal issues. Also dont get me wrong, I am directly down the Jim Mitchell Line. I think he is a fine martial artist. I am not affiliated with him any longer, mostly because my instructor broke off form Jim Mitchell quite a long time ago. But I dont think you are getting the whole story if that is what you are being told. It sounds good, but it is what it is.

 

[matt rafferty]

It is always interesting to get feedback when mentioning the name Jim Mitchell. I personally was not training in the dojo the day Jim Mitchell and the great Ed Parker, Sr split ways. In fact I was not even in grammar school. But I have sworn an unswerving loyalty to my instructors, from whom I receive the art. I recognize that any time I am told a story wherein I was not a "fly on the wall" the possibility exists that what I am told may not be the entire story. That being said, Jim Mitchell is my instructor and I hold him in great regard. He in turn holds the memory of his master Ed Parker, Sr in great regard. I have seen that personally in his eyes. Ed Parker, Sr had great respect for Jim Mitchell, that is, if the picture Ed Parker, Sr personally autographed I have seen is to be believed. Whatever Jim Mitchell's reasons for naming his tech's, I personally feel the names are much easier to remember than the names Ed Parker, Sr chose. I thank you for your feedback and I salute you.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

names are names.
someone can name them green, starship, banana, and puppydog for all i care.
the importance is not in the name, but rather what you are learning to do, what is important about the movement you are doing, and how that can carry off into other aspects of movement.
I have seen plenty of good and bad martial artists doing techniques with the same names.. it becomes quickly apparant who actually understands what the thing means, and who just remembers some form of names.
dont get caught up in the unimportant details, make sure to grab important stuff out of there.
I have no reasons to stear you away from Jim Mitchell as an instructor either, so my comments were not meant to try to do that.
have fun training, and remember Black Belt is not the destination, especially being as close as you are. Its simply a new starting point. This art of ours can be gone through for our entire lives and still have important things brought out of it for us.
Happy Training!