Ah, OK.
So fair to say the basics lessons are aimed at defence against a brawler type attack(which is undoubtedly much more common anyway), while advanced moves into how to cope against a more skilled opponent?
Krav Maga grading
- Thread starter Headhunter
- Start date
Ah, OK.
So fair to say the basics lessons are aimed at defence against a brawler type attack(which is undoubtedly much more common anyway), while advanced moves into how to cope against a more skilled opponent?
Headhunter
Senior Master
I see that said a lot about Krav Maga and don't really understand it (not saying your saying this but it's what I see a lot)
People say oh Krav Maga doesn't work against martial artists...but so far at basic level. We have defence against, straight punches, hook punches, uppercuts, front kicks and chokes and takedowns. Those are all things that a trained guy will use. Really there's not much difference between a brawler and a trained guy especially in the streets. A lot of technique goes out the window even in the ring technique can look sloppy when done for real.
Again I'm not saying this to you but just addressing that point in general
Yeah, that's not what I was saying 
More advanced techniques that are executed properly need more advanced defences.
I don't watch many fights, but the ones I've seen the technique gets sloppy because they either get tired or they're out of their depth.
If a trained artist looks sloppy "in the street" they aren't applying their training properly.
With regard to what I said above, a trained guy will probably use those, but should use them differently compared to a brawler.
The difference in use (a much more calculated application, with better control) means you have to be at the next level up to deal with them.
More advanced techniques that are executed properly need more advanced defences.
I don't watch many fights, but the ones I've seen the technique gets sloppy because they either get tired or they're out of their depth.
If a trained artist looks sloppy "in the street" they aren't applying their training properly.
With regard to what I said above, a trained guy will probably use those, but should use them differently compared to a brawler.
The difference in use (a much more calculated application, with better control) means you have to be at the next level up to deal with them.
Hanzou
Grandmaster
Uh, that's exactly what they were saying. Again, I was never told that I could win in a boxing match or a wrestling match under wrestling or boxing rules because that argument is patently absurd. However, we were always taught how to counter those types of fighters, and if boxers or wrestlers ever came to our school, we were able to use what we learned against them.
Schools make the argument about not being able to stop MMA exponents, boxers, and wrestlers because they know that saying the opposite will draw such people to their gyms and dojos to challenge them, or have their students go out and challenge those people and embarrass themselves.. So instead we get the typical "our martial art isn't about sports!" nonsense in order to cover their butts and avoid ever having to prove their efficacy to their students.
Hey, you got tooled by that boxer? No worries, the mythical bad guy in "tEh stREetz" is going to come at you with a knife and 4 buddies! You don't need to worry about getting stomped by that boxer, you need to worry about knife guy and his 4 friends!
Yep, that's exactly what they want you to believe. It's a truly amazing marketing tactic that clearly still works on the masses.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Go away please as I said I'm not turning a thread about my grading into one of your stupid arguments
Headhunter
Senior Master
I don't know, but I imagine defending against a punch from you would be a different proposition to defending against a punch from me.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Would or should? There’s a difference. Day one punch defense SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch. I mean a punch is a punch, and a block is a block right? But that doesn’t mean it WILL work.
The difference should be the experienced defender seeing things the newbie doesn’t see - not falling for fakes, getting timing down, seeing the punch before it’s too late, not giving another opening during the block, not going into the fetal position, etc.
As to how an advanced punch block works, I have no idea. I’m still doing the same things I tried to do on day one. The differences are subtle, such as using better footwork and angles, but those blocks aren’t anything different. Maybe launching a counter before the block is completed, but that’s about it.
Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I don't know. I get the impression people think they learn things in order of complexity and therefore effectiveness. And then have some sort of secret techniques in reserve king fu movie style.
My punch defenses work against bad and good punches based on my ability. So for me I don't do this haymaker punch/boxers punch silliness.
And nuance is application of that rather than this technique collection.
It is a super common thing.
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A cross counter. Sinple movement but requires a good sense of timing and good observation skills. I suck at it, and couldnt imagine choosing to teach someone it straight off the bat, but it works.
JR 137
Grandmaster
When I said “SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch” in my previous post, I didn’t mean some blocks will work against a good punch vs a bad punch; I meant it should work against every punch, including the best of the best. I mean, if you get your arm up in time for your hand to meet Mike Tyson’s wrist before he connects with your face, it’ll work. If you get your arm up to meet the 90 year old man who’s bed ridden’s wrist before his fist connects with your face, same thing.
Same block SHOULD work against both guys, and everyone in between. No need for an “advanced” block. But should and will are two different things. But yeah, I don’t see how an “advanced block” would work when a basic one wouldn’t. Then again, I don’t know any advanced blocks anyway. I’m still trying to perfect the basic ones that SHOULD work.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah but we do have that whole against a street fighter punch series of defenses.
Yay, once again I inadvertently started a discussion by using stupid wording 
OK, so...
Blocking my punch, you can use a "day one" block.
Blocking a good punch, you can use a "day one" block - but you're going to have to be better at applying it and reading the situation.
I.e. it'll have to be more advanced to deal with the more advanced attack...
Front kick? That gets different too. Someone can do a front kick like they're hoofing a ball and you can quite easily suppress the attack.
Someone does a more advanced front kick (like does it properly) you can use the same block but you'll have to better at it and yada yada...
Then there's reading what they're going to kick - one of my funnest things is to change what kick is coming, so lifting my knee looks front kick (no, I don't just hold it there...) but it might go either side of you, be a side kick or just be a front kick, at almost any height - the same simple block done well will work great against a lot of them, if it's put in the right place at the right time.
Sometimes I'll accept the one point from my crappy punch or punch combo, more often I'll punch to set up a kick - if I was actually fighting I certainly wouldn't rely on a punch.
So block my punch, I don't care because it's a throwaway anyway - you'll have to be better with application and reading to catch the following kick (unless you count my target as a blocking tool).
And there's what happens next. That "day one" block might stop the best punches once it's developed a bit, but you'll more than likely need more than that to create an opening for counter or run away.
So yeah, I didn't mean "advanced" as in a 17 stage blocking dance to stop a predetermined punch/kick/elbow/headbutt combo...
I meant advanced was being better at doing the defence against someone who is better at attacking and being able to effectively follow it up.
OK, so...
Blocking my punch, you can use a "day one" block.
Blocking a good punch, you can use a "day one" block - but you're going to have to be better at applying it and reading the situation.
I.e. it'll have to be more advanced to deal with the more advanced attack...
Front kick? That gets different too. Someone can do a front kick like they're hoofing a ball and you can quite easily suppress the attack.
Someone does a more advanced front kick (like does it properly) you can use the same block but you'll have to better at it and yada yada...
Then there's reading what they're going to kick - one of my funnest things is to change what kick is coming, so lifting my knee looks front kick (no, I don't just hold it there...) but it might go either side of you, be a side kick or just be a front kick, at almost any height - the same simple block done well will work great against a lot of them, if it's put in the right place at the right time.
Sometimes I'll accept the one point from my crappy punch or punch combo, more often I'll punch to set up a kick - if I was actually fighting I certainly wouldn't rely on a punch.
So block my punch, I don't care because it's a throwaway anyway - you'll have to be better with application and reading to catch the following kick (unless you count my target as a blocking tool
).And there's what happens next. That "day one" block might stop the best punches once it's developed a bit, but you'll more than likely need more than that to create an opening for counter or run away.
So yeah, I didn't mean "advanced" as in a 17 stage blocking dance to stop a predetermined punch/kick/elbow/headbutt combo...
I meant advanced was being better at doing the defence against someone who is better at attacking and being able to effectively follow it up.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Exactly what I meant by the “day one block SHOULD work” against everything. How do you make that day one block work against everyone, from the worst to the best? There’s no substitute for experience. There’s nothing about that block that’s “advanced.” The wrist/forearm still connects with the strike the same way. But what’s advanced is being able to use it when your opponent is doing stuff along the lines of what you’re saying.Yay, once again I inadvertently started a discussion by using stupid wording
OK, so...
Blocking my punch, you can use a "day one" block.
Blocking a good punch, you can use a "day one" block - but you're going to have to be better at applying it and reading the situation.
I.e. it'll have to be more advanced to deal with the more advanced attack...
Front kick? That gets different too. Someone can do a front kick like they're hoofing a ball and you can quite easily suppress the attack.
Someone does a more advanced front kick (like does it properly) you can use the same block but you'll have to better at it and yada yada...
Then there's reading what they're going to kick - one of my funnest things is to change what kick is coming, so lifting my knee looks front kick (no, I don't just hold it there...) but it might go either side of you, be a side kick or just be a front kick, at almost any height - the same simple block done well will work great against a lot of them, if it's put in the right place at the right time.
Sometimes I'll accept the one point from my crappy punch or punch combo, more often I'll punch to set up a kick - if I was actually fighting I certainly wouldn't rely on a punch.
So block my punch, I don't care because it's a throwaway anyway - you'll have to be better with application and reading to catch the following kick (unless you count my target as a blocking tool
And there's what happens next. That "day one" block might stop the best punches once it's developed a bit, but you'll more than likely need more than that to create an opening for counter or run away.
So yeah, I didn't mean "advanced" as in a 17 stage blocking dance to stop a predetermined punch/kick/elbow/headbutt combo...
I meant advanced was being better at doing the defence against someone who is better at attacking and being able to effectively follow it up.
Technique doesn’t get too advanced. Being able to reliably use it does.
Congratulations!
As far as I know Krav Maga teaches to avoid fighting on the ground. So you shouldn't worry about leaving bjj and Muay Thai, anyway you will get all required techniques for self defence including elements of ground fighting on the next grade. For me Krav Maga is the best combination of all martial arts. How do you think?
Does Krav Maga even have grading? I was under the impression that it doesn't use any grading system. Anyway from what I do know about Krav Maga its designed to prepare you for real confrontations as opposed to styles that are more sport.
Headhunter
Senior Master
Well I assume it does due to the fact I spent 5 hours doing one but you know I could be wrong lol
