Hi Chris!
Thank you for your feedback.
No problem.
I'll start by answering your question: I was looking for aikido dojos in the area I might relocate in and this one showed up. They offer koryu classes and I figured it would be awesome to train in those systems during my "aikido off days", since I've always been very curious about koryu.
Cool, thanks for that.
Hmm... there are reasons that training in multiple koryu is not advised... let alone training in koryu and other systems (as a rule). There are a number of ways of thinking of koryu, such as thinking of them as political entities (they are), but the most accurate way to think of them here is as a way of teaching you how to think and move... and, as such, anything that detracts from that particular way of thinking and moving, such as learning or training yourself in a different, potentially conflicting form, does nothing but take you away from actually doing that particular ryu. As a result, if you're training in a koryu to supplement your Aikido training, then you're not really training in that koryu... as you're approaching it through the filter of the Aikido practice... and aren't able to take on the thought and movement ideals of the koryu itself.
Bear in mind that what all this is saying is that training in a koryu isn't about learning "techniques"... while you will certainly learn them (appropriate to the art in question), it's more that they are an expression of the ryu, rather than the "real" art itself. As a result, if you're not training a koryu for the ryu's sake, then it's not really worth doing in the first place. All you're becoming is a technician... which is fine in modern arts, but goes against much of the idea of koryu training in the first place. This is the issue with a school teaching such multiple systems... "blending" means you're not actually doing anything... like having three exquisite meals prepared from three top chefs in three different cuisines, then putting them all in a blender together and saying "I have all these great dishes, this is the best meal in the world!" Uh... nope.
I don't mind studying an old art that's not impressive or "realistic" but I want to know what the deal is. If someone says he teaches Katori Shinto ryu the student will expect to be taught just that: Katori Shinto ryu. What I don't want to do is believe I train the real ryu while I'm just being taught a synthesis, or some made up forms or the real forms but taught by someone who hasn't a sufficient understanding of the art.
Yeah... that's the thing... what is the actual "Katori Shinto Ryu"? How do you identify it?
Of course, when it comes to "impressive", that's a matter of personal opinion... I was watching a clip the other day of a number of Iai systems at an embu... many embusha were younger, showing some of the more intricate and complex kata of their systems... then an older practitioner came on, and performed one of the simplest kata (a simple horizontal, then vertical cut, something familiar to many systems)... but he performed it with such precision, such control, such focus that it was a huge standout to me of "this is what it's meant to be!" Suffice to say, to me, that is the definition of "impressive".
"Realistic" is another matter, of course... I would argue that I have yet to find anything koryu that isn't realistic... you just need to look at what the context is, and what it's meant to be realistic to.
What I am after is an art with "makes sense" on a martial point of view, which would be consistent with the aikido I'm currently training in (even though it's not "realistic"). And what I want to avoid is learning some kata while leaving out crucial points like distance, timing or basically what makes it "work" when you train the ryu properly.
Okay, I'd advise not looking for something that is "consistent" with your Aikido... if you're looking for that, you'll miss the actual ryu-ha and it's teachings, as mentioned above. As for the rest, if they're missing, then so is the ryu...
I wondered "does this teacher know what he claims to be teaching?". I've seen several dojos where the instructor claimed to teach you traditional arts but obviously didn't know what he was doing. For example there's a "Genbukan" dojo in my (current) city and after some Google-do I found out that the teacher's teacher was simply a karate shodan who won a couple of competitions in Algeria and made up a mystical story about meeting "ninja master Tanemura Soke" under the moonlight and being taught the secret arts of the ninja.
Yeah... not unheard of. Rarer with the Genbukan, as they have much stricter standards, and are far more open about who is at what level, but still, some will try to present some very false stories as truth...
"Fishy" might be a harsh word and I by no means meant to disrespect the teacher at Garyuan dojo.
Sure. My point was more that, without having some kind of actual knowledge of the system, videos aren't always the best way to constructively assess systems such as koryu arts. To that end, here is a video of Iwaki Hideo presenting Asayama Ichiden Ryu... this is very much the same line/form as is found in the Genbukan, and in the Garyuan Dojo... and, unless you have some knowledge of the system, it simply doesn't look like much... even compared to the Garyuan Dojo clip.
I was just perplexed when seeing that the head instructor had high ranks in so many arts at 46. Also I couldn't tell if their movements were sound or not. That's why I started this thread to ask whether people recognized what the instructor at Garyuan is doing, if the forms are the ones from the claimed ryu and if the technique and principles are applied well.
The forms are fairly accurate to the ryu in question... albeit with a few odd aspects... but, as said, that's not the real litmus test for koryu...
Also, after further investigation, the way they work is clearer to me: novices learn what they call "Hashi ha jujutsu", a "modern jujutsu style" aimed to "cultivate solid basics". As I have found no information on that style my guess is that it is a synthesis made by the head of the Garyuan dojo.
After some time, the students can choose to study a Koryu between Asayama Ichiden Ryu Tai Jutsu, Fudo Chishin Ryu Hakuda, Tenjin Myoshin Ryu Heiho and Hontai Yoshin Ryu. Found nothing about Fudo Chishin Ryu Hakuda other than an article by a Spanish teacher saying that he learnt it from Nakashima Atsumi.
And once they get to black belt they study Bianchi Method Jujutsu in addition to the Koryu.
It looks like the instructor learnt those ryu under Nakashima Atsumi, with a focus on Asayama Ichiden Ryu.
Yeah... to my mind, that's not really the right way to study koryu... koryu are dedicated studies in and of themselves... the only way to really train in one is to join one, and follow it purely (separate from any external influence), hence the idea of multiple systems not being a good idea, particularly early on. That's not to say that this approach isn't valid for some people, but it's not the same as training in koryu properly.
Now what's not known is how much time Maurizio Germano spent under Nakashima and whether he has a sufficient understanding of the different ryu.
Yeah... there's a lot of questions there that can take us down some rather dark (hidden) pathways... such as what exactly much of the ryu listed from Atsumi actually are, and where they come from...which leads to a question of exactly how accurate any study can have been...
