Koryo

[Bret Hinds]

Can anyone tell me what move number 26 is about?I know the the move but what does the hand over head mean?and the foot comming up into a crane stance.Then comming down withthe hand into the palm about?In the great words of Sgt. Shultes I know nothing!

 

[Ninjamom]

If I have the numbers right, you just finished ripping some poor guy's gonads out, and as he is curling up in the fetal position, you are pushing his head down and out of the way so that you can slam your elbow into his slouching, collapsing ribs (or possibly pushing him out of the way, to slam your elbow into the ribs of the guy behind him).

The crane stance is no longer used in Koryo. The hand motion is a breathing exercise combined into a hammerfist target strike.

 

[Last Fearner]

Can anyone tell me what move number 26 is about?I know the the move but what does the hand over head mean?and the foot comming up into a crane stance.Then comming down withthe hand into the palm about?

First, before I answer, I have a few questions. Who taught you the form, and what do they say about this? Does your teacher not know, or do you not believe the answer your teacher gave you, or are you teaching yourself? - just curious.

As with most movements in Taekwondo forms, the interpretation can vary, and they can be applied in many ways. As Ninjamom stated, there is no crane stance here in movement #26. You should have just completed a left side-elbow strike, reinforced with the right hand, in a horse stance toward 9:00 O'clock (west). You then shift your weight to your right foot as you slowly draw your left foot close to the right, with its movement being just above the surface of the floor.

The hands are spread above the head to prepare for the downward, circular motion of the left inward hammer fist strike into the right palm. The reason for both hands to raise above the head is partially for appearance in the form, but can be interpreted as a defense against a bear hug. It also to provides a target to strike into (similar to the elbow strikes into the palm of your hand after the side kicks of Oh Jang).

In reality, this can be a single hand technique striking an opponent's groin. Place yourself in the horse stance with the left elbow strike of movement #25. Imagine an opponent has just moved up to your right shoulder facing the 9:00 O'clock direction (west) toward your last opponent. They might even attempt to bear hug you over your arms. You stand and thrust your arms up to break their grip. Reach around behind them with your right hand and place your left palm on the base of their tail-bone to hold them in place. Then, as you draw your left foot in close to your right foot, make a large circle with your left fist (counter-clockwise) and strike them in the groin with the left inward hammer-fist strike.

As they crumble to the ground, you pivot left to face an opponent who is approaching from behind. You strike their neck with an outward knife-hand strike, and continue the form. The arm spread of movement #26 can also be interpreted as a release from a bear-hug from this third attacker who is behind you, and you hammer fist the second opponent in the groin, then turn to attack the person who bear-hugged you.

I hope this helps for a better understanding of the use of this movement.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[rmclain]

Can anyone tell me what move number 26 is about?I know the the move but what does the hand over head mean?and the foot comming up into a crane stance.Then comming down withthe hand into the palm about?In the great words of Sgt. Shultes I know nothing!

Sounds like this is the newer version of Koryo (since 1974)?

R. McLain

 

[TX_BB]

Not knowing why you asked the question, I'll address it from the competition arena. The Kukkiwon website offers very good support on the standarization of their forms (http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/information/information04_03_9.jsp?div=04).

This is an item that has in the past been allowed alot of artistic license, but at this time the Kukkiwon is trying to rally around the standarization of the forms, so that all competitors have an equal shot in the World Championships (still evolving).

 

[Bret Hinds]

I want to thank all of you who posted to my question, Let me start with some answers to the questions that was asked of me. I learned this form for Mr. Jack Hwang. This form is listed in the books of Kyong Myong Lee and many others.The movement number 26 starts lift both hands over your head and in a circular motion move them to the outside and down again;move the left foot towards the right for a modum-baal. as the hands come up is when the the right leg raise or crane movement is done thehands and foot comes down with the right hand closeds fist to the open left hand turning to the right,rasieing the right hand turning and comming down to a single sudo strike slideing out to a front stance. My teacher is 8th dan, teaching in the U.S.A. starting in 1963. As to changes in Koryo some people like to change when they think they have mastered a form? One of the U.S.A.'s greatest things is we change things to make them our own. But I like old school ideas myself. Again thank you to all who reply to my ost , And if I ofended anyone I did not mean to. All the best in the arts

 

[Miles]

The reason behind the move was not mentioned at the Instructor Course but it could be, like the junbi motion, intended to be a ki-gathering motion.

BTW, the right leg moves toward the left leg after the augmented side elbow strike.

Miles

 

[TKDmel]

BTW, the right leg moves toward the left leg after the augmented side elbow strike.

Miles

Thats how I was taught the movement as well with the right leg moving towards the left.

 

[Last Fearner]

BTW, the right leg moves toward the left leg after the augmented side elbow strike.

Miles

I have heard this debate back and forth for more than a decade. Some Grandmasters have tried to make better sense of the realistic application of the hand technique, and believe that moving one foot, or the other "feels right" to them.

When they first released the Taegeuk forms, and the Koryo (as I know it) was taught to everyone, I understand there was a seminar held in Korea (I was not involved at that time). Some of the Grandmasters that I have worked with were there, and many of the WTF seminars for Olympic referees have brought up this point.

I'm sure there are many books and videos presented by high ranking Grandmasters who may differ on this. As a point of reference, I have been using these two books (in addition to the personal instruction I received over the years). Now, I am not saying I am right, and others are wrong (not by a long shot!!), but this is how these books state it:

1st Book
"Taekwon Do Forms - Complete & Official Forms of The World Tae Kwon Do Federation - International Council on Martial Arts Education" (NANAM Publications, Co. Seoul, Korea 1988).

(authors listed randomly: Dae Shik Kim, Kyung Sun Shin, Tae Hong Choi, Bong Yul Shin, Kiel Soon Park, Suk Ki Shin, Lee H. Park, Kwang Sung Kim, Ri Kon Ko)

26. "Bringing the left foot inward to an attention stance (Moaseogi), raise both hands above the head and in a circular motion, bring them to waist level. The left hand makes a fist and rests on the open right hand in front of the abdomen."

2nd Book
"The World Taekwondo Federation - Taekwondo (Poomse)" (copyright 1975 by The World Taekwondo Federation, Seoul, Korea; Shin Jin Gak Publishing Agency)

26. "Lift both hands up to the face, and spread them sidewise in a circling motion. The left foot comes together with the right foot to make a Modeum-bal (You should control your breath here.) Moaseogi. Oen-Me-joomeok-Pyojeok-Arae-Chigi (facing "G" direction)."


Note that both books say that the left foot moves to the right, and that it is a left hammer fist ("Oen-Me-Joomeok) that strikes the right open palm.

Food for thought!

CM D.J. Eisenhart
____________________
Last Fearner

 

[TKDmel]

With so many different styles of TKD, I have no doubt that Koryo poomse is taught with slight variations between the styles and even between instructors. I was taught to bring the right foot to the left as it is shown on the kikkiwon website. That is not to say that the opposite is incorrect, rather a different approach to the same end. If any form is done with correct technique and intensity then it is correct for that style. Just my $0.2

 

[Miles]

I have both of those books.

Originally, I learned it moving my left foot and had to change to moving my right foot. The left hammerfist to the right palm has not changed. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but the current version is performed as I mentioned.

Miles