Knowledge Transfer to Family

[Chris Parker]

This is what I am getting at. I am just trying to teach them SD, period. That is all. Did I come across any different? I think that I did! If I did, then sorry for confusing everyone!

Hi,

This is where we got the idea that you are wanting to teach the specific arts, rather than SD concepts (from your first post in this thread):

"I would like to transfer my knowledge to my wife and children. I have some useable tae kwon do experience and I am obtaining some Hapkido/Yudo experience.

Due to scheduling conflicts, personal dispositions, and absolutely no family, support system or friends, my wife and children will not be attending any sort of class.

Do you have any thoughts on whether or not I could transfer knowledge over to them effectively?

Things have worked extremely well thus far with my wife and my 5 year old son.

I am not so sure about teaching my son hapkido/yudo yet, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that maybe those arts are better taught after the age of 12. It is also a little tough for my son not having a little sparring partner, but I am sure he loves beating me up.

I have also been leaving my wife kind of sore when she resists at 100% but so far we have worked it out by allowing her to apply the techniques on me 10 times as often. "

And, frankly, from our discussions when you first got here, you have a fair bit to learn when it comes to eralistic self-defence concepts as well. I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but I still feel this is not a good idea.

And, if I may speak for Bruno here (with apologies if I misinterpret), what he was getting at is that a person with only a partial idea/partial knowledge can be more dangerous to themselves than to others. As they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... But what it means here is that a false sense of security/strength/abliity can be engendered quite easily, particularly if taught by someone who doesn't really have a full understanding themselves and therefore (not through any fault other than inexperience) has techniques performed in a less-than-effective way, which can actually be a lot more common than you may think.

SD is more than simply "knowing" things on an intellectual level, and as I said earlier, the best thing you can do is just ot talk to your family about such things, this will increase their awareness and make it a part of their daily lives. But as for teaching the technical side, leave that for a while. For their benefit as well as yours.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Hello,

I have found over the years it is quite difficult, if not impossible, to teach someone you have a strong (non martial arts) emotional attachment to. I include immediate, or secondary family. Perhaps close friends, as well.

As in example, back in the mid 1980's I attempted to teach my wife Kenpo. As the teacher/student relationship is often blurred in a marriage type situation, I finally found it easier and more beneficial to step out of that roll.
I asked the head instructor of my school, (my teacher) at the time to take on the roll of my wife's teacher. It worked out much better. No emotions got in the way of the teacher/student relationship. (At least none that I was aware of)
She progressed well with little problem.

By the way, you can still "help" someone you are close to, emotionally, learn. It is just difficult to maintain the distinct instructor relationship, that is so necessary to have. Contemporaries make poor teacher/student relationships, IMO. You can never loose that idea of who is the teacher to be effective with students. You must be able to maintain some distance, professionally, for the best relationship.
I do know that I cannot speak for everyone. I am sure that some have had some sucess teaching loved ones. I just do not recommend it based on my experiences, and what I have seen and been told.

I also never recommend someone who does not have a teaching degree, or equivalent, in any specific art or discipline to "teach" anyone. Helping can be OK, under the right circumstances.

Good question.
Thank you,
Milt G.

Hello, I can see your views. Could you expand on them? Why would an emotional bond cause more problems? I am sure that you know what you are talking about, but I don't see any issues on this end with it. Still, if you have seen it more than once, I would like to know about it and try to figure it out and understand before I have potential problems.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hey Chris! Thanks again!

Well as before, my ideas for them are solely SD based, but you if anyone might already know that.

My son IS very interested and so is the wife.

For a lack of an argument here, all I can say is that they are highly interested in my knowledge transfer to them. Whatever I have passed their way they are really eating up and it is drawing us together as a healthier family. Wife is getting healthier by doing streches etc.

I am glad that it is so far a positive thing for you and your family, but my concerns stand. You will probably find as you improve and your experience grows that what you are teaching right now is so far off that it is doing little good (other than the benefits you list here... if those are the main ones you are after, then all good). But be prepared for them to get bored well before you...

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon here, you do NOT have the credentials to be teaching anybody anything (this includes basic rolls and falls, even). There are a lot of bad habits that people have for a while that they may not even notice are bad habits.

As stated above, you're very vague about why your family can't attend your class, yet you seem to be able to.

Finally, I really think your son might be a little bit too young to be trained properly (Especially by an unqualified teacher). Teaching is hard. Teaching young children is even harder. Think about that.

Thank you for your thoughts. Please keep in mind that just because I am vague about my personal situation doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I would welcome a PM about it though. The situation that we are in makes it preclusive at this time.

I do agree that teaching my son anything beyond the basics is tough...but so far he is doing just fine.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

I am glad that it is so far a positive thing for you and your family, but my concerns stand. You will probably find as you improve and your experience grows that what you are teaching right now is so far off that it is doing little good (other than the benefits you list here... if those are the main ones you are after, then all good). But be prepared for them to get bored well before you...

Chris, thanks as before. Not to be contrary, but I just don't see that happening at least at this point.

Now I am getting concerned that I may be teaching them incorrectly but still effectively. I say this because my teacher will catch me out when I mess up. However, they may develop bad habits that I am not going to be good enough/experienced enough to identify!

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

It depends.
If you do not have a degree that would qualify you as a teacher, then I would advise against it if they ever want to do those arts for real. Because if you are still a beginner, you will likely teach them things that are wrong. Then, if they ever start in a real dojo, they will have to un-learn many bad habits.

Of course if they don't, then that is less of a problem. In that case, they will be better off than if you don't teach them anything.

Just my 2 ct.

I got what you are saying since this is not what I am saying and it is for purposes of SD alone...they WILL BE BETTER OFF than if DON'T TEACH THEM ANYTHING. I have a hard time with reading comprehension sometimes. I just noticed that you said this.

 

[Chris Parker]

You may be teaching them correctly, but ineffectively. That is far more likely than teaching them incorrectly but effectively. Or even more likely, incorrectly and ineffectively. Sorry, but after over 20 years in this, I've had exposure to many different teachers of various levels of experience, and watched my junior students try to teach (and here I am refering to guys with 10 years of experience in some cases), and teaching is not easy even when you've been doing it for a long time.

And just remember, you are the one that sought out Martial Art training, not your wife nor your son, so don't be surprised if their enthusiasm is based at least in part on their affection for you. I have seen many couples/friends/family members start together, all full of (seemingly) the same enthusiasm, only to have one or more drop away, leaving only the one who would have come by themselves anyway.

 

[Chris Parker]

Oh, and no offence to Bruno, but I would point out that he is fairly newly exposed to his art as well (I seem to remember answering a quite involved list of questions when he first arrived...), and for the reasons I stated earlier, I would say that you can actually do harm teaching prematurely, and that, yes, your son and wife may indeed be better off if you didn't teach them anything. Yet. Talk to them about it, maybe go through a little physical stuff, but that's it.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Hi Chris, absolutely none taken. I hope I don't come across as wanting to appear more experienced than I am. And thanks for answering my questions. There were enough of them for sure. I have been practising several times per week for half a year now, and I feel fairly certain that I have a reasonable grasp on my white belt material.

Still, over the last weeks I have been working on my notes, and discovered that on some things, I was not entirely certain about some of the details. Admittedly, they were details, but important ones that made a difference in the technique, so I had to ask my sensei again.

And that is the important element here. I have a 'gold standard' that is directly applied to my progress, and which insures that I grow towards that textbook form of my art, with some assurance that what I learn is both effective and correct.

Otoh, if I were to teach my wife ninpo, she would not have that gold standard, and because we would be the blind leading the blind, I would not spot her mistakes and correct them. And while I would progress, she would end up with more and more mistakes until what she does is both incorrect and ineffective, and ingrained by practising bad things over and over. This coul be much more dangerous to her than having no MA knowledge. Because then at least she would be aware of being vulnerable and base decisions on that awareness (meaning taking no risks instead of assuming she'd beable to handle herself)

This is also what I meant with my earlier post. I could probably teach my wife many self defense aspects (awareness and other practical non-MA stuff) and perhaps a couple of basic pointers (scratch the eyes, how to hit and not break her wrist, etc) but that would be it. From that point of view, my MA experience would be useful. Although to be honest, I only have that basic knowledge because of the 3 years of modern jiu-jitsu (which is now almost 15 years ago). If I would only have my current ninpo experience... I would probably not be able to teach her anything useful at all.

Fwiw I have helped teach women's self defense classes while I was doing JJ (I was the one who played the attacker and ended up being beaten, scratched, kicked, and hit in the unmentionables with weapons of opportunity ), and the main message was
1) be aware and take precautions.
2) unless you do MA seriously, you have no clue how to actually fight, so fight dirty and simple if you get the chance and run as soon as possible.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hey Bruno,

No, you are coming across (at least to me) as a genuinely interested practitioner and generous individual when it comes to sharing your experiences. Perfect forum decorum (sorry, couldn't resist that... it's getting late here, nearly 3am again...).

Your points are pretty much exactly what I have been getting at, so absolute agreement here. As for the Women's Self Defence Class, those are some very good principles to go through, but it needs to be ensured thataspects suc as awareness are taught properly even in and of themselves. It unfortunately is not enough to simply say "We teach awareness", and keep it vague (not saying that was the case, simply making a point). Awareness needs to be taught relative to the common environment, and that will change depending on where you are. For example, here in Melbourne, we have gangs, and knife assaults, but very few gun assaults. So awareness here involves whether or not you can see someones' hands (if not, be aware it may be concealing a weapon), so you make sure you are out of "knife" ambush range; whereas in the US, the weapons carried could very easily be a handgun. So your awareness could involve recognising what types of jackets and other clothing could conceal a gun, and ho to spot a hidden holster. From there, be aware of it, and move away from it (to give more time to react in the case of a sudden draw).

Without experience, these basic aspects of self defence can be mis-taught or mis-applied quite easily.

 

[ukiltmybrutha]

Well I have indeed looked over what you wrote. I do not want any of you to feel that your posts have been in vain.

In fact, the culmination of your opinions have allowed me to come to my own logical conclusions.

Thank you for your time!

 

[still learning]

Hello, There are alot of simple things NON-martial artist can learn to defend themselves...that you can teach them as you progress in your learning...Keep it simple and easy to do...

Get the book "The Gift of Fear" ....good stuffs in them for YOU and your Wife/ spouses'...

Eyes...great tarkets...easy to teach and learn...(do lots of reseach on this)...scratchng the outside of the eye balls...will recover...Study the laws on this...gouging - should only be consider in life or death situtions...Know your laws...

Aloha,

PS: Yes as parents and couples...all of us are concern for there safety in America...

We need to make the laws tronger, NO such thing as Parale boards(purpose to let bad guys out earlier)..

Laws benifits the BAD guys...the innocent suffers....LOOK Around!