Know your art

[theletch1]

I myself have a very limited exposure to other arts besides kenpo but am always interested in seeing how the other side lives, so to speak. I think that a good description of what the move is that you are discussing

(i.e. ) :right forearm across opponents throat, right hand grasps left bicep, left hand to back of opponents head, apply pressure to throat with forearm while pushing forward with left hand //sleeper//

should be the minimum that you should do out of respect for the other artists here as well as respect for your chosen art. I used terminology that I think most of us understand and then put the name of the choke/technique after the description.

I fully understand the point that Chufeng is trying to make and agree with it. There is no time limit on how long you have to respond to a thread so take your time, think about what you have to say and THEN put finger to keyboard. It will help you get the answer you are searching for a lot quicker if everyone across the spectrumof arts that we have here can understand to which technique you are refering. I still consider myself a newbie in MA so I may one of those guys that needs the "MA for idiots" description

respecfully,
theletch1:asian

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
What Chufeng is saying, I think, is that there is a commonality to all the terms. What is called outside wrist twist in Yiliquan is referred to as a backwards throw in Modern Arnis, and Ikkyo (I think) in Aikido. Exact same movement, slightly different method of application, but essentially the same effect. But referring to it as "that thing you do where you grab the other guy's wrist and twist it" is a tad too vague and useless to anyone in this kind of forum. If that is how your instructor refers to techniques in his teaching, from my standpoint he/she is doing you a disservice by failing to give you something, a verbal symbol if you will, with which to refer to the technique and remember it.

I agree. I would rather use two names that represent the same, knowing what they represent. Arm between legs, lift up arms with arms while legs in between... to hard, and easy to misunderstand.



/Yari

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by theletch1
I myself have a very limited exposure to other arts besides kenpo but am always interested in seeing how the other side lives, so to speak. I think that a good description of what the move is that you are discussing

(i.e. ) :right forearm across opponents throat, right hand grasps left bicep, left hand to back of opponents head, apply pressure to throat with forearm while pushing forward with left hand //sleeper//

should be the minimum that you should do out of respect for the other artists here as well as respect for your chosen art. I used terminology that I think most of us understand and then put the name of the choke/technique after the description.

I fully understand the point that Chufeng is trying to make and agree with it. There is no time limit on how long you have to respond to a thread so take your time, think about what you have to say and THEN put finger to keyboard. It will help you get the answer you are searching for a lot quicker if everyone across the spectrumof arts that we have here can understand to which technique you are refering. I still consider myself a newbie in MA so I may one of those guys that needs the "MA for idiots" description

respecfully,
theletch1:asian

This seems like a perfect example of the miss communication that the original post was addressing. I thought that the move described originally was from the front and it would be described in our system something like this; right hand grasps opponents right lapel under his right ear, left hand grasps opponents left lapel under his left ear and by using a sicssors action and pulling opponent towards you a choke is affected by the action of the wrists against the opponents' cartoid arteries. We don't have a technique in our system like this (although we do have a technique against it) but it would be cool if maybe there was a thread for cross refrencing all the terminology and common techniques throws steps blocks strikes chokes ect. There is such a thing in the Kenpo forum but it only has the Kenpo terminology. BTW I really don't know if theletch's take was right or if mine was or if neither of us is. This seems like there may be an opportunity to create some common ground here. Any thoughts?

 

[theletch1]

It appears that I didn't take my own suggestion about taking your time. In my RUSH to finish my post I neglected to say "from behind your opponent" or label the move as a choke from the rear.

I thought that the move described originally was from the front and it would be described in our system something like this; right hand grasps opponents right lapel under his right ear, left hand grasps opponents left lapel under his left ear and by using a sicssors action and pulling opponent towards you a choke is affected by the action of the wrists against the opponents' cartoid arteries.

We have this too, and it is from the front. The cross reference that you are asking about may be something to come from the mods request for papers. Great idea. I know that there are tons of different ways to identify things within kenpo so the number should be even greater when taken from all the styles represented here.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:

 

[chufeng]

I think the last two responses demonstrate what I was getting at with the original posting of this thread...

Let's not side-track this thread with specific techniques...
Let's discuss WHY common language IS important...

I don't care if it's English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or whatever...BUT...having a common language to describe technique IS important for the passing on of information...

Students may not appreciate that...but Teachers surely see what I'm getting at (I hope).

:asian:
chufeng

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by chufeng


I don't care if it's English, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or whatever...

:asian:
chufeng

1 vote for English. Everything else is Greek to me!

 

[chufeng]

Gary,

I appreciate your concern...but there are some arts that have a language that is specific to the art...I am not advocating that everyone use English terminology...I am advocating that the student LEARN the language of the system...insofar as the techniques are concerned...and I charge the instructors with the responsibility to share the proper terminology with his/her students.

Hope this helps...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Mike Clarke]

When I was in high school [250 B.C.], One of the kids in my class asked our French teacher why they used the term "la port" when speaking about "the door"?
"Why don't they just call it a door?"

Reading this thread has brough that whole sorry afternoon flooding back to me.

Maybe we all need to understand things in our own language, but without a common language within an art, how is it possible to interact with people around the world?

One of the few things I didn't have to worry about much when I went to Okinawa for the first time, was the names of the techniques I'd be doing in the dojo. In fact, understanding the instructions [not completely, but enough to know what we were being asked to do next], was one of the things that gave me the confidence to go on my own in the first place.

Not continuing with the traditional names for the techniques smacks of laziness to me, and is yet another example of people pulling the arts down to suit those who don't have what it takes in their character to climb up to the bar and get over it.

Mike.

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by chufeng
Gary,

I appreciate your concern...but there are some arts that have a language that is specific to the art...I am not advocating that everyone use English terminology...I am advocating that the student LEARN the language of the system...insofar as the techniques are concerned...and I charge the instructors with the responsibility to share the proper terminology with his/her students.

Hope this helps...

:asian:
chufeng

Of course students should learn the terminology of thier art. That isn't my point. In an open forum such as this those who study other arts cannot decipher what you are talking about if you mention a technique or movement using your art's name for it. Unless you have no interest in sharing knowledge with those outside your art it would be extremly helpful to the 'outsiders' to have these things explained in a common language. Like a dictionary to define common terms used in your art. In the Kenpo forum when a technique is discussed the first thing that we do is to spell out the technique as written in the individual's school so that everyone is on the same page so to speak. There is also a 'dictionary' thread of terminology. Perhaps if each art had something along similar lines and then maybe we could have a master thread that cross referenced all the various arts. I'm sure most every art has what the Kenpo people call an 'inward block' or a 'snap punch' or a 'side kick'. Also if the practitioners described how they perform the technique that they are talking about, differences or variations can be readily discussed. Also questions could be asked about the reasons for certain actions or moves ect.

 

[sweeper]

a good suggestion, has my vote : )

 

[chufeng]

A terminology database is a good idea...
Administrators?

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Cliarlaoch]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1


That having been said, there is a finite number of ways in which the human body can move or be manipulated. Period. To say they are infinite is just so much horse poop. The number of variations of any given technique may be quite large, but not infinte by any stretch.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

There actually are infinite ways to move the body... it just requires the jaws of life, a chainsaw, and some patience. Muahaha.


On a serious note, though, I do agree that there is some definite value to maintaining a common term for a technique. At the very least, you should be able to identify it in your own dojang without having to say "Well, do this, and then..." since that makes it all very tedious. Not to mentinon bloody well inefficient for instruction and awareness. Fair enough, Chufeng.