Knife Defense

[still learning]

That's why you make your dojo training as realistic as possible. Use scenarios, have your "victim" unaware they are the target of the drill. Make the attacks as realistic as possible.

If you havent' seen it yet, watch the youtube die less often video for ideas on how to make your training realistic

The point of training is to prepare you for a real attack. You're saying you should always run away. What if you're with your wife and child? Are you going to run away and leave them? Or do you think your wife and infant can outrun someone with a knife? That's called a nightmare scenario. Your only choice is to fight so they can get away. If your knife defense training consists solely of runing away, what will you do when you can't? What will you do if the person is too close for you to turn and run? Or they're too close for you to get a weapon to defend yourself?

People have defended themselves from real knife attacks without using weapons, do some digging around for police videos and surveilance camera vids all the reality shows like to play, see what those victimes did and how they survived. Figure out how to use what they did and how to make it work for you. Also, watch what the attackers are doing. In the videos I can find, the attackers all use "caveman" style attacks. Powerful, natural movements. Typically forehand swings (slashes and stabs), or downward (psycho stabs). All of them I saw did the same thing when getting ready to attack (hide the knife arm back and try to grab the person to pump the knife into them, called a sewing machine attack).

Get some good knife training, Dog Brothers, Red Zone, James Keating, Mike Janich, Ray Floro, or some of the others listed in the sticky on the knife defense forums.

Train hard, stay alert and be safe

Dojo is still a class room training....and does not prepare you for the REAL life knife attack....still better to learn something and be more prepare

IT is too dangerous to work with real knivies...but try it! ..put you in a different feeling when practicing! ....try it out side in the dark too? in open areas or at the park?

Aloha, ...to practice for real....the better...but NO way to really practice for REAL!

 

[tshadowchaser]

truth be told there where more than a few cuts suffered in my instructors classes by the black belts. There have been a few in my classes suffered by those I trusted enough to train "Live blade" with. We where all lucky no cut was serious enough to need hospital attention. If you train with a live blade some time or other someone is gonna get cut.
That cut also teaches you a great deal on how you will react in the street to a cut.
Not even coming close to saying that I recommend people to train with a live blade. Most are not competent enough to

 

[kwaichang]

Using a prop blade with chalked edges is much safer and will show when and where contact is made, thus exposing weakness in a defense. Liability is a reality no one really wants.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Or use a Shock-Knife for added realism and 'pain' motivation.

 

[Skpotamus]

Dojo is still a class room training....and does not prepare you for the REAL life knife attack....still better to learn something and be more prepare

IT is too dangerous to work with real knivies...but try it! ..put you in a different feeling when practicing! ....try it out side in the dark too? in open areas or at the park?

Aloha, ...to practice for real....the better...but NO way to really practice for REAL!

Actually, we use either sharkee training knives with the marking edges so we can see where the knives are making contact. Or we use training boffers we made so we can hit hard without damaging each other (still hurts, but doesnt' damage).

We do train outdoors (weather permitting) for SD work sometimes, as well as in low light conditions. We also practice in small rooms sometimes, and with lots of obstacles around. We also like to practice in street clothes, and a couple of us that carry knives have made training drones so we can practice deploying our folders when under stress. A lot of our drills are "no warning drills". Meaning we take students and attack them during class when they aren't necessarily expecting an attack, like during some instruction for a drill, when stopping ot get a drink, etc (only advanced students with instructors do much of this).

Out of curiousity, how do you think that the master instructors practice? Do they go out and get into knife fights? How do the spec ops teams practice? Do they actually practice sentry elimination by killing real guards? I highly doubt it. They use training scenarios that get as real as they can without actually killing people to instill the techniques, strategies and mindsets into their people so when the real thing happens, they don't just freeze up and die.

You get out of your training what you put in. Do some research, find knife attack videos, work out similar scenarios for students to practice in. Be aggressive and forget your training when it's your turn to be the attacker and really go after your partner. Make it as real as you can without actually killing each other.

 

[MJS]

Dojo is still a class room training....and does not prepare you for the REAL life knife attack....still better to learn something and be more prepare

IT is too dangerous to work with real knivies...but try it! ..put you in a different feeling when practicing! ....try it out side in the dark too? in open areas or at the park?

Aloha, ...to practice for real....the better...but NO way to really practice for REAL!

And the same can be said regarding alot of our dojo training. However, there are steps that we can take to ensure that our training is a bit more real and alive. In the case of the knife defense, there are tools such as the no lie blade and the more expensive shock knife, to give a more realistic feel to the defense. Additionally, the roles need to be played with some realism as well. While things may not be the real deal, we can still simulate to give the right mindset.

 

[CatNap]

Yet how many styles out there really deal with reality fighting and enable students to deal with real life crisis situations? Most exist to pass down an art: it's rooted in history, has a story about a culture, about a people, the movements aren't always combat oriented in the way at Karv maga is and Russian styles military oriented. I've often wondered about it myself. Where do you turn for instruction geared towards hostage situations, knife and gun attacks and dirty fighting in general?

Laura

 

[KenpoTex]

Yet how many styles out there really deal with reality fighting and enable students to deal with real life crisis situations? Most exist to pass down an art: it's rooted in history, has a story about a culture, about a people, the movements aren't always combat oriented in the way at Karv maga is and Russian styles military oriented. I've often wondered about it myself. Where do you turn for instruction geared towards hostage situations, knife and gun attacks and dirty fighting in general?

Laura

A blend of MMA, combatives, and realistic weapons training.

 

[thetruth]

That's why you make your dojo training as realistic as possible. Use scenarios, have your "victim" unaware they are the target of the drill. Make the attacks as realistic as possible.

If you havent' seen it yet, watch the youtube die less often video for ideas on how to make your training realistic

The point of training is to prepare you for a real attack. You're saying you should always run away. What if you're with your wife and child? Are you going to run away and leave them? Or do you think your wife and infant can outrun someone with a knife? That's called a nightmare scenario. Your only choice is to fight so they can get away. If your knife defense training consists solely of runing away, what will you do when you can't? What will you do if the person is too close for you to turn and run? Or they're too close for you to get a weapon to defend yourself?

People have defended themselves from real knife attacks without using weapons, do some digging around for police videos and surveilance camera vids all the reality shows like to play, see what those victimes did and how they survived. Figure out how to use what they did and how to make it work for you. Also, watch what the attackers are doing. In the videos I can find, the attackers all use "caveman" style attacks. Powerful, natural movements. Typically forehand swings (slashes and stabs), or downward (psycho stabs). All of them I saw did the same thing when getting ready to attack (hide the knife arm back and try to grab the person to pump the knife into them, called a sewing machine attack).

Get some good knife training, Dog Brothers, Red Zone, James Keating, Mike Janich, Ray Floro, or some of the others listed in the sticky on the knife defense forums.

Train hard, stay alert and be safe

Has anyone here had experience with the 'dog catcher'? It seems as though there isn't a great deal to it if they have to block out certain parts of their preview. I'm NOT saying that it isn't effective but why block out the technique?? I think it may be a very simple effective technique that doesn't really require a whole dvd to learn and train.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[MJS]

Yet how many styles out there really deal with reality fighting and enable students to deal with real life crisis situations? Most exist to pass down an art: it's rooted in history, has a story about a culture, about a people, the movements aren't always combat oriented in the way at Karv maga is and Russian styles military oriented. I've often wondered about it myself. Where do you turn for instruction geared towards hostage situations, knife and gun attacks and dirty fighting in general?

Laura

Many people, myself included, have the belief that if you really want to get a solid understanding of weapons, you need to look for a weapon based art. If I want to learn how to grapple, I'm not going to join a TKD school, I'm going to join a BJJ or Judo school. If I really want a solid understanding of the blade, I'm going to look at the FMAs, such as Arnis, Sayoc, Pekiti Tirsia, etc. Kenpo, my base art, covers knife defense, and sure, there are some good techniques, however, by looking at a weapon based art, you get to see things in a different way.

As I said earlier...the odds of us going up against a FMA master on the street probably won't happen, however, once you see the number of ways a knife can be used, you'll be even more prepared IMO, in the event someone does have knowledge on how to use a knife.

 

[MJS]

Has anyone here had experience with the 'dog catcher'? It seems as though there isn't a great deal to it if they have to block out certain parts of their preview. I'm NOT saying that it isn't effective but why block out the technique?? I think it may be a very simple effective technique that doesn't really require a whole dvd to learn and train.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

Keep in mind that the DLO clips you're seeing on youtube are promo clips. Its possible that by putting on the teaser clips, and blocking some parts out, it'll peak the curiosity of folks viewing and they'll buy the dvds.