[snipe]Bob Hubbard[/snipe]
King of Gypsies stabbed by 6 men
- Thread starter Tez3
- Start date
They're gangs in some ways, mostly a strict sociological definition and some criminal law definitions. They're different from criminal street gangs in some other significant ways. The Gypsies/Romani are a distinct culture, which unfortunately has a notable criminal element. The same can be said of the Tinkers and Travellers. (Depending on who you ask -- Tinkers and Travellers are sometimes said to be different groups, with some differences in traditions.) Street gangs/youth gangs have a different dynamic, and are less of a culture themselves.
The local groups I alluded to earlier include groups like the "woodchucks" in my area, who tend to victimize the elderly by overcharging them for yard services or home repairs (like tree removal) that are then done poorly, incompletely, or not at all. In some cases, they've actually pretty much extorted the money from the victims! Some of these are the same sorts of cons that the Gypsys and Tinkers are known for, hence the overlap in the grouping.
OP
OP
True enough. The Romanies however are a racial group as well as a cultural one. there's a lot of mystique about Gypsies/Roma some of romantic lol and some of it derogatory. I'm not actually suire how much crime they are really responsible for as whenever they are in the area its easy to blame them for all thefts. However there's no doubt like all societies they have their share of baddies.
Here most whether gypsies or travellers, they tend not to go for the scams you describe, most seem involved in the scrap metal business which I think is quite lucrative. The fighting of course generates huge sums with the betting.
I know that some people here have objected to the comments quoted above. However, I don't think this was intended to denigrate any cultural group. The sad fact is that the above comments are pretty a accurate description of the general reputation these groups. My brother worked for many years as a journalist and did some investigation of these groups in the US. Now my brother is not a bigot, nor an ignoramus, in spite of being a gun toting cowboy from Arizona (another sweeping generalization!?). In fact, he was educated at Dartmouth College (Ivy league) and University College, Oxford (yes, England). At any rate, the upshot of this is that his reporting pretty much concurred with what JKS stated. Right down to the religious/folkloric justification for scamming outsiders among some Romany groups. And is that so strange? I mean it is human nature to rationalize our behaviors.
Lynne
Master of Arts
In my area, Romani people are known for paving driveways...and for being dedicated members of the Eastern Orthodox Church. The paving family/company has a lot of business, so I would assume they are doing a good job.
I'm not sure we can paint Gypsies/travellers/tinkers (except I don't know what tinkers are) with the same brush. I do realize that Gypsies are a tight-knit social network with their own laws and ways. I know there are Gypsy mafia groups in California that are fighting one another. One family opened up a psychic reading business and another group told them it was their territory and to pay some crazy amount a month or else. But how is that any different from the Italian Mafia? Not all Italians are Mafia. Not all whites commit white-collar crimes. Not all blacks are crack users.
What are tinkers?
I'm not sure we can paint Gypsies/travellers/tinkers (except I don't know what tinkers are) with the same brush. I do realize that Gypsies are a tight-knit social network with their own laws and ways. I know there are Gypsy mafia groups in California that are fighting one another. One family opened up a psychic reading business and another group told them it was their territory and to pay some crazy amount a month or else. But how is that any different from the Italian Mafia? Not all Italians are Mafia. Not all whites commit white-collar crimes. Not all blacks are crack users.
What are tinkers?
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Marginal
Senior Master
Someone brought that news report up on another forum I frequent, and I was surprised to see how pervasive that mode of thought is throughout some folks in Europe. Guys from Spain, Poland, UK, Sweden, Germany etc were all ranting about how nasty Gypsies were.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
It really bothers me when people make comments like this. I see two people wanting to fight and doing so in a bare knuckles match as perfectly fine, similar to a couple guys meeting up for a 1-1 basketball match, fooseball match, pool game, video game, etc. I really despise when other people tell me what I should or should not do, or how I do or do not get something... I think people who make these comments are the ones who don't get it, and should just stay out of it until they do.
Are there issues and dangers? Of course, same as if two guys went at it in a street basketball game and one got mad and shoots or stabs at the other... it has happened... it has also happened in pool matches, and video game matches.
your quote is also out of context. The quote is meant to describe someone who runs into a problem and tries to attack it physically rather then mentally, it is not meant to be applied to two people mutually entering into a physical contest.
Lynne, here's few links to get you started on researching Irish Tinkers:
http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/SchoolofEnglish/imperial/ireland/travellers.htm
http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/travelers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller
http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/SchoolofEnglish/imperial/ireland/travellers.htm
http://www.irish-society.org/Hedgemaster%20Archives/travelers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller
OP
OP
This is what's coming up -Appleby Horse Fair and this is why there will be trouble as people will either be looking for justice or revenge depending on your point of view!
http://www.visitcumbria.com/events/appleby-fair.htm
http://www.visitcumbria.com/events/appleby-fair.htm
That's a different question -- and not what you asked! LOL
OP
OP
I know! but I didn't think it would go the way it had and have to get warnings about posts on it! I thought it would be more a discussion on bare knuckle fighting or as I said the 6 on one thing.
Why does Hockey come to mind? Hehe.
We had a problem with Gypsies for a while and they were serious shoplifters. I was friends with one for a while and she was a pickpocket, who refused to teach me to pickpockets.
OP
OP
Picking pockets is a serious skill!
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
Alot of amateurs out there though, I have caught two pickpockets in the act, on other people... never had one try it on me yet...at least I have never had anything mysteriously disappear from my pockets, and usually find extra cash in the washing machine I never realized I had....maybe reverse pick pocketing LOL
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
When I was at NavSouth in Naples/Napoli, Italy, the gypsie pickpockets were awful. Everywhere. Had to place your valuables in special vests worn inside your clothing. Even had a little cabal of rugrats -- about a dozen kids ranging from 10-14 -- try to distract 2 of us into a corner with the intent to knife us and rifle our pockets.
When I saw shiny things start to come out, I reached for the largest kid within closest reach and slapped him across the face/jaw so hard it spun him, then front thrust kicked him as hard as I could to knock him off his feet. Immediately menaced the next nearest kids, growling and roaring like a rabid bear. They split like cockroaches with a light turned on.
Old Neopolitan smoking a cigarette and watching this over his espresso commented that I had probably just saved myself & my buddy lots of stitches; that he has watched those same kids slice up and stab lots of foriegners on that same spot.
My other experience with gypsies was being mobbed by them in the train station in Milano, and having to chase one down to get my suitcase back; and of warning off another swarming group of them near Grand Place in Bruxelles. The gypsie beggars in Bruxelles -- at least in the late 80's -- used to drug their kids to make them lay still and look pathetic while they panhandled.
So...you could probably add my vote to the list of people with some anti-gypsy sentiment.
OP
OP
Thing is were they gypsies or what they call a didicoy? thats the problem, telling real Roma from the travelers and tinkers, it all gets lumped into one group who all get the blame.it is a huge problem though.
In many places in Europe begging on the street is legal still, it isn't here though and when people try they get upset at being arrested for begging. Some try begging with menaces, a big no no. If they tried it with children they'd be arrested and the children taken away by social services. We get a lot of shop lifting though, we seem to have a lot of Romanians who say they are gypsies but no one is really sure.They claim political ayslum because they say they are perscuted in Romania which seems to be true but again whether its because of 'race' or the fact they are criminals is arguable.
We went to Naples for an MMA fight night, just three of us, our fighter Brian, my instructor Mick and myself, we were with some frankly dodgy people (probably Camorra) but we were treated like royalty, the worst problem was the driving though, the only time I've every seen my instructors knuckles white lol! Brian had two fights, beating Italians both times, we were the only English in the nightclub ( it had a lovely open roof, cool in the evening heat) but everyone was great with us. That was the Friday night, Saturday they took us to Ishia to stay until our flight on Sunday evening.
