Kenshindoryu Traditional Judo
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frank raud
Master of Arts
I've seen the book as well. Little digging says the Kenshindoryu term is Shihan Jim Dart's own term for the martial arts he teaches Sensei Jim Dart - Chief Instructor Kenshindoryu Nippon Budo Kyokai Is it traditional, as in TMA? No. Is it effective? Don't know.
Oily Dragon
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I think this is one of those schools that are heavy on demonstration but light or no randori or shiai. Heavy on judo tradition in terms of what's shown, with some old school jujutsu striking, but all form/kata based. The "we use form, not strength" people which is great in theory but not in reality.
In other words, a judo format with little to no sparring or contact, more like traditional jujutsu, but still based on Kodokan judo.
When it comes to these specific arts (anything comparing itself to judo, BJJ etc), competition video is the litmus test. But all I can find are videos of slow compliant demos similar to JJJ and Aikido.
So if Judo was more like Aikido, it might be Kenshindoryu (and let's face it Kenshin-do Ryu sounds a little mashed up upon translation).
In other words, a judo format with little to no sparring or contact, more like traditional jujutsu, but still based on Kodokan judo.
When it comes to these specific arts (anything comparing itself to judo, BJJ etc), competition video is the litmus test. But all I can find are videos of slow compliant demos similar to JJJ and Aikido.
So if Judo was more like Aikido, it might be Kenshindoryu (and let's face it Kenshin-do Ryu sounds a little mashed up upon translation).
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frank raud
Master of Arts
This " style" of judo evolved from Zen Judo, which favors perfection of techniques over competition, so none of the techniques are actually tested. You may teach the technical aspects of a throw exactly the same as it is taught in a Kodokan judo club, but as the Kodokan student will practice with resistance in randori at the club or in competition, the Kodokan student will be better.
Sorry to be late to this party.
"In other words, a judo format with little to no sparring or contact, more like traditional jujutsu, but still based on Kodokan judo."
This isn't accurate.
Kenshindoryu Traditional Judo does lots of randori, including standing randori and groundwork and around 1/3 to half of each session will be taken up with some sort of randori. What we don't often do is judo shiai, because half of the throws in our syllabus are now banned by the IJF and, of course, you can't use pressure-point atemi in judo contest. It's also not based upon Kodokan judo, having derived (as does Zen Judo) from Kenshiro Abbe's DNBK Judo, so it has more circular movements.
The Combat Judo subset also includes tachi-waza throwing, involving throwing from a range of free-choice attacks. The limited value of this, however is that, although it isn't a pre-set attack as practiced in the grading syllabus, the attacker already knows that the defender will try to throw, so there tends to be some pre-emptive defensiveness from the attacker.
Finally, our groundwork is more jujutsu-like than judo in that, in addition to the normal holds, pins, locks and strangles, it allow gouges, bites, hair-pulling, strikes, small-joint locks and this means that some judo holds are not effective because they expose the eyes, mouth, ears or fingers.
We DO have a 'more like Aikido' offering, which is effectively a study group with syllabus, and that is called Zenshosen Judo, and is based entirely around koryu jujutsu techniques and kata.
"In other words, a judo format with little to no sparring or contact, more like traditional jujutsu, but still based on Kodokan judo."
This isn't accurate.
Kenshindoryu Traditional Judo does lots of randori, including standing randori and groundwork and around 1/3 to half of each session will be taken up with some sort of randori. What we don't often do is judo shiai, because half of the throws in our syllabus are now banned by the IJF and, of course, you can't use pressure-point atemi in judo contest. It's also not based upon Kodokan judo, having derived (as does Zen Judo) from Kenshiro Abbe's DNBK Judo, so it has more circular movements.
The Combat Judo subset also includes tachi-waza throwing, involving throwing from a range of free-choice attacks. The limited value of this, however is that, although it isn't a pre-set attack as practiced in the grading syllabus, the attacker already knows that the defender will try to throw, so there tends to be some pre-emptive defensiveness from the attacker.
Finally, our groundwork is more jujutsu-like than judo in that, in addition to the normal holds, pins, locks and strangles, it allow gouges, bites, hair-pulling, strikes, small-joint locks and this means that some judo holds are not effective because they expose the eyes, mouth, ears or fingers.
We DO have a 'more like Aikido' offering, which is effectively a study group with syllabus, and that is called Zenshosen Judo, and is based entirely around koryu jujutsu techniques and kata.
Welcome to MartialTalk!
Can you give some more details on what sort of randori structures and rules you would typically encounter in your classes? It sounds like you have multiple approaches.
frank raud
Master of Arts
Can you expand on this? Are you saying you don't compete in judo competitions because of your syllabus? What's stopping you from doing shiai with your own clubs/organization?
We do randori like any judo club except that we can use any throws in our syllabus and are not constrained by leg grabs etc. However, unlike contest Judoka, we try to focus on staying standing up (ie Tachiwaza) as rolling throws in the street are likely to have unintended consequences. This means that a different arsenal of throws is generally used to those normally seen in contest - uchimata being the biggest difference, where we would probably favour haraigoshi which gives a better opportunity to remain standing. As our groundwork is solely submission-based (ie. not simply hold-downs) we tend to, but don't always, separate groundwork randori as a different activity.
As an organisation, we don't generally complete in Judo Competitions because we don't hold NGB licences. We DO have students and instructors that also train at BJA and BJC clubs and do randori and shiai with them - although fair to say that they are invariably disqualified in shiai for using IJF 'illegal' techniques, which we permit in our classes.
We also don't often do what you would consider Judo Shiai (ie. points fighting) although it is required for gradings. What we do practice is jiyu kumite (freefighting) which you might more normally associate with karate or jujutsu kumite competition.
