Kenpo Weapons

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by pineapple head
I always carry a large buch of keys around with me with one large key if i want to swing it. Useful weapon i think.

Kinda like a Marikigusari (Spike & Chain) a popular Japanese weapon.

:asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by theletch1
...and to feel more comfortable with weapons of opportunity (i.e pool cue, tire iron, cheater bar on a flatbed, broken chair leg as a tonfa)....

Right on. I don't know which movie it was but a year or two ago I saw one with Jet Li I think where he used his belt Very effectively.

Later a Goju instructor I know said that you can use a belt like nunchaku. That got me thinking.

Another more experienced friend of mine also said that "flexible weapons are very cool."

Crossover skills would be my primary interest in learning a "traditional weapon."

Although, I was about to learn the Sabre when I switched schools and I still sort of want to learn that, but I doubt that I will.

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by cdhall
Later a Goju instructor I know said that you can use a belt like nunchaku

I tried that once, and I couldn't really pull it off. Problem is a belt's only weighted at one end, so if you change grip you just end up swinging a bit of leather that doesn't have a whole lof of momentum.

Personally, if I was going to resort to that, I'd keep it in one hand and use ot more like a flail, so the buckle was always at the end.

While we're on the topic of belts, how would people go about defending against someone trying to hit you with one? With a small weight at the end, it's not going to be a very committed attack like somthing heavier such as a baseball bat would be, they're goign to be able to bring it right back at you pretty quick....ideas?

Ian.

 

[Wes Idol]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
The choice of "Arms" of course is up to you........ but I personally encourage every thing...

Not only could you learn and use weapons...... You NEED to. There are many lessons learned ..... distance is one.

In Parker's American Kenpo there are techniques and/or sets for the staff, sticks (not Filipino application), nunchaku and the knife. Although these particular weapons have official placement in Parker's system, an American Kenpoist should be able to "Kenpoize" their use of any weapon they can hold in their hands. I have personally feel it to be a benefit to pick up anything...from a wrench to an umbrella...and experiment.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

 

[Blindside]

While we're on the topic of belts, how would people go about defending against someone trying to hit you with one? With a small weight at the end, it's not going to be a very committed attack like somthing heavier such as a baseball bat would be, they're goign to be able to bring it right back at you pretty quick....ideas?

Charge him, get to punching range and pound on him. The belt can be using to entangle, but that usually requires two hands, so use your two hands/elbows/knees etc to take him apart. The offensive abilities of a belt are pretty limited, even a big-a$$ belt buckle isn't going to kill you (and I see plenty of those out here in cowboy country.) Just cover your head as you enter, you can take most shots to the body or arms. Flexible weapons are slower on initiation since the weapon needs to be pulled into action. Their advantage is that they are difficult to block since they wrap around, but that isn't that important on a belt. On a flail maybe, not a belt.

Lamont

 

[Michael Billings]

I like the belt as a weapon:

Defensively against a knife, not only do you have a longer reaching strike, but wrapped around the arm, like an old European Buckler, it can protect the forearm, fist and hand.

I like to use is as a "wrap" entangling arms and actually tying hands to throat or using the belt to restrain or immobilize.

It is not one of my favorites, but Kenpoist cannot discount any environmental advantage.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Michael Billings]

Kenpo stick application is definitly not Fillipeno in application, and totally cool. Levers, fulcrums, controls, and immobilizations.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Blindside]

I spent a day (yeah, thats right, a whole day. ) working with a noted knife instructor on flexible weapon defenses against the knife. Belt, hankerchief, t-shirt, whatever. Cool lessons on how to "load" a hanky for self defense, or how sew in a pocket ahead of time to make it easier. Against a knife I I sort of like it, but then I'll take any help I can get against a knife. I don't really like it in a unarmed situation though, I'm much more confident in my own hands in a case like that.

Interestingly, the Tracy curriculum contains several belt techs against knives in their curriculum. We wound up modifying a couple after getting info from the FMA guys, but some of the base techs aren't too bad.

Lamont

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Blindside
I spent a day (yeah, thats right, a whole day. ) working with a noted knife instructor on flexible weapon defenses against the knife. Hankerchief, lessons on how to "load" a hanky for self defense, or how sew in a pocket ahead of time to make it easier. Against a knife I I sort of like it, but then I'll take any help I can get against a knife. Lamont

wow, sounds like you enjoyed the day........ but c'mon..... a hanky against a knife...........?

 

[Blindside]

Hey, take it up with Edgar Sulite , of course that would be rather difficult at this point.... Anyway, you wrap/twist the bandanna so that you can use it to entangle and disarm your opponent.

Jim suggests loading the bandanna with a weight and using like a whip at the opponents face to keep them back and wary. When the opponent comes in they hopefully dedicate an attack to close the gap, and that increases the opportunity to avoid and control the attacking arm. Personally, I'd rather have a knife/gun/stick in my hand than a bandanna, but you can take a bandanna and 6 quarters just about anywhere.

Lamont

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Blindside
You wrap/twist the bandanna so that you can use it to entangle and disarm your opponent.

Jim suggests loading the bandanna with a weight and using like a whip at the opponents face to keep them back and wary. When the opponent comes in they hopefully dedicate an attack to close the gap, and that increases the opportunity to avoid and control the attacking arm. Also, you can take a bandanna and 6 quarters just about anywhere. Lamont

Indeed!
:asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Blindside
...but you can take a bandanna and 6 quarters just about anywhere.

Excellent point. I quit carrying my really neat Kubotan keychain thing because I didn't have a purse to keep it in but a roll of quarters and a bandana might be easier to keep around...

:idea:

 

[Blindside]

Well its not a roll of quarters, it is just enough to load one of the bandanna tips (tie it into a fold in the corner). I've practiced on cardboard boxes and I can consistently penetrate 2-ply of cardboard sheets using 4-6 quarters. Any larger and the mass becomes a bit to big to accellerate and recover quickly.

Anyway, if you want more information on this material James Keating has some videos on it. I don't know how these videos are, as I don't own them, but I did learn this material from him.
Remember that the flexible weapon is a concept, it could be a belt, rope, bandana, or one of those stupid chains that people attach their wallets to. People earlier on this thread have talked about kenpoizing anything you have in your hand, and I agree, but go ahead and look around at some of the material already out there from other arts. It may cut your learning curve down.

Oh yeah, Jim's tapes aren't cheap, but they are gold. See here

Lamont

 

[satans.barber]

Can't help thinking a someone's going to end up very dead one of these days, thinking they can take on a knife with a hanky...!

We often get the rubber knives out, and try and defend against them, and I know for a fact I would have ended up dead every time.

RUN AWAY!

Ian.

 

[Blindside]

Gee really???

Yes I would like to run away too, I don't have the delusion that going against a knife is any kind of picnic. (That incidentally is why I have sought out experts in the field to train me, and no one has said that going against a knife is the best course of action.) I train like this for the cases when I can't run away, when I'm backed into a corner, or when I'm with people who can't run away as fast as I can (Grandma, mother, father, wife, sister, etc.)

I DON'T want to face a knife unarmed or ever for that matter, but just in case I also use and carry a knife.... just in case. If running away was the solution to all my problems I wouldn't be in martial arts, I'd be training for track matches.

Lamont

 

[pineapple head]

Quite agree with Blindside here.
If we are going to run away all the time , why the hell train so hard .
I know you are facing a knife , but even then by the time it takes you to turn around or whatever and accelerate into a run the guy would have probably stuck you by then.OR even may throw the knife at you , yeah i know its not easy to throw but the options there.
Bandanna is a good weapon....pretend you go to get your money then whip this thing out hard , you may just catch him enough to distract for a moment , then you have a chance to run like hell.
Anyway going to work now ,7.00 am here. I will make sure all my doors are locked you have scared me now..haha

 

[Wes Idol]

Try this with your training partners. Get about ten to fifteen feet away from one another, face to face. Tell your partner to try and stab you as you attempt to turn and run in the opposite direction...you might be quite surprised at how quickly they are able to get to you as you are turning and exposing your back.

One time I heard Richard Planas once say, "You should always face your work." That piece of advice is not bad.

Respectfully,

WI, HI
UKS

 

[Kenpodoc]

When archeologist/anthropologists evaluate medievil (and other) battle sites it becomes clear that a very large percentage of fatal wounds are sustained from the back while running. This is probably why Alexander the Great, the romans, etc were able to conquer such wide areas with relatively few men and casualties. I've never heard anyone say that you should try to get in a knife fight. Zack Whitson talks about training in Pekiti to run from an opponent in a controlled manner. Kenpo itself has multiple examples of how to get behind an opponent (Kenpo teaches us to turn and fight but this is an opportunity to run while your opponent has to turn and accelerate.) Learn how to deal with weapons not because you are likely to win but because it might be your only chance, and learn how to set yourself up to run successfully from a weapon yielding sadist, because your money won't be enough to stop the SOB.

 

[KanoLives]

I just concluded a few weeks of knife training at my dojo. My instructor advises to run if the opportunity presents itself. Because like many have said all it takes is one good slash with a knife to any part of the body and that could spell bad news for you. For instance someone has a knife on you and you make a move to attempt a disarm tech. Next thing you know your forearm or bicep is cut, blood is pouring and you can see right to the muscle that was cut as the fibers of the muscle begin to tear. What are you gonna do now as you start to loose consiousness from loss of blood. Lights out. Fights over. And I'm not sayinig this will always happen. You could sucessfully disarm the guy. But if all he wants is money or something that can be replaced I say give it to him. Your life can't be replaced. Most of the techs we learned were a quick couple of strikes and then an opportunity to run away right after. It definitely depends on the situation though, like someone pointed out being trapped in a corner and being attacked well in that case you have no choice but to defend your self. Here's an idea.....Take a training knife or any object to simulate a knife and have it rubbed in a bright colored chalk. Now have your training partner really simulate knife situations. I bet you find it suprising how much chalk will be on your clothes after the practice situations. And notice where the chalk marks are. It only takes one artery or vein to hit before you start loosing enough blood for the fight to be over.

As for weapons training. Why not? Anything to expand your knowledge of an art. Just my 2 cents though.

Later

 

[Goldendragon7]

That many are addressing the "knife defenses" and working on this category of Kenpo. This is one of the most needed areas (due in part to the advanced nature of the beast) of practice that I feel is necessary. We don't put too much into the "knife defenses" at the lower ranks other than to teach a few "ideal" starter ideas about them.

Real knowledge comes when you actually start to work thru the defenses and become aware that one small mis-judgment can be fatal. This is not so much so with the empty handed techniques (but can be).

Keep up exploring any and all avenues to expand your awareness on this topic...... !

One drill I like..............
I like to "knife fight" with white T-Shirts and magic markers. This can be with one or both having markers (knives). If you want to work on SD Techniques then a solo knife is good, if you want to actual "spar" then arm both with markers. You will have a lot of fun, get in some good physical training, get some great new ideas and insights, and get a big dose of reality about the knife.

:asian: