Kenpo Kids Curriculum

[Warrior-Scholar]

Hi everyone!
Maybe this has been addressed in an earlier thread, so please let me know if it has.
I have been teaching adults for some time, but we have just started a kids program 2 weeks ago at a local gymnastics school. I plan on teaching them the entire 24 system with blunted weapons etc. at the direction of my instructor. Well, initially every student thinks 10 techs. is a lot and that 24 are crazy! However, I feel in my gut that this will definitely be a challenge for the little ones. (Side note: my kids class starts at 7) I just want to hear about your experiences teaching kids; do you teach the full curriculum, does it take longer for the kids to learn the material, are your expectations different for kids.
I know kids learn differently. Even if I were to teach a child and an adult the same rules and strategies of a game, I would have different performance standards.

Any help is appreciated!
Your fellow Kenpoist
W-S

 

[Touch Of Death]

Consider that they may need to use this stuff the minute they walk out the door.
Sean

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

If I understand you correctly, should I expect a 7 year old child to punch a 6'2" adult as in Alternating Mace and be as effective as an adult? I am just trying to understand your statement.

After seeing a bunch of horrible threads throughout these forums, please keep in mind I am not mad or offended by your post...just seeking clarification.

If anyone out there does teach the full system to kids, please let me know.
Thanks

 

[Touch Of Death]

What I am saying is that a child should be provided with the tools to defend themselves over text book representations of each tech with specific ending. They should under stand that a 6 foot 2 adult is probably not capable of throwing the proper attack (low push); so, alternating maces would not, in the very least, come up from that particular senerio. However, controling the distance, stabilizing your base, and staying off the line of attack are universal.
Sean

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

That said, would you teach the full 24 techniques per belt for children? Per technique and belt you should always teach the principles and basics that really matter. You should also teach how to adapt etc. This is more a matter of HOW you teach the curriculum. I am also aware of the need to teach universal concepts etc. I want to know if people out there in Kenpo land are teaching the full system or not.
Thanks!

BTW Touch of Death
What do you normally teach the 7-12 group?

 

[HKphooey]

I would look at the techniques that deal with grabs and pushes. Also, as TOD said, teach tech's that teach distancing.

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

Interesting that you bring up distancing. I decided to teach them about the clock without boring them to tears. We did this on the first day so that they have a reference for future training. Some of my assistants would attempt to grab or punch the kids as I called out 3, 6 or 9 o'clock. Everyone did very well! Before we started the second class on Monday, a few kids demanded we play the "clock game" again.
I held an open house a few weeks ago and gave a seminar regarding personal safety. We continue to distinguish between fighting classmates and adults. I am working and re-working my lessons right now. Going back to my years as a school teacher, I put on a "serious" face when we discuss something of grave importance. They seem to distinguish very well.

I hope to have more comments on this issue.
Thanks

 

[michaeledward]

At the school where I study, the 'Kenpo Kids' (ages 6 to 12) do not learn the full curriculum. We use a 16 technique per belt system. I believe the children learn 10 techniques per belt. I know at Yellow, adults have 13, children have 6.

What Mr. Hogan has chosen to implement are techniques based on the proper rules and principles, but keep the techniques that require higher levels of control off the charts. One example ... Blinding Sacrifice is not on the childrens curriculum. First two strikes ... eyes and groin???? Ouch. The more dangerous weapons and targets are kept away from the children's lessons.

When a Kenpo Kid reaches 13 years of age, regardless of where they are on the children's charts, they move over to the adult class, and begin from the start of the Yellow Belt Chart. They relearn what they have already learned and the additional material that was not included in the children's system.

We have several very capable "Junior Black Belts' that are now at adult Green, and 3rd Brown. They are great to work with. One of the toughest practitioners at our school is a 16 year old young lady, who has been studying for 10 years. She's tough as nails. Can take a hit and give a hit. She and I (I'm a 42 year old man) have a blast thumping each other on the mat. (If we got into the sparring ring together, she'ld kill me).

Personally, I think attempting to give Kenpo Kids the full 24 technique curriculum, and all the thought processes behind the system, would be overwhelming. I am not sure that a nine or ten year old is going to be able to grasp some of the concepts that make up our system. If you try to provide too much information - because that works better for you - you may find that you don't ever get any young students beyond the orange belt level. Maybe.

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

Thanks for your comments!!!
Actually teaching the 24 techs is in no way easier for me!
My very capable and knowledgeable instructor has done this in the past and desires I do so as well. I just wanted to hear how others might be accomplishing this goal.
Thank you!

 

[phoenix]

Thanks for your comments!!!
Actually teaching the 24 techs is in no way easier for me!
My very capable and knowledgeable instructor has done this in the past and desires I do so as well. I just wanted to hear how others might be accomplishing this goal.
Thank you!

I have taught kids in the past, and am just re-starting my kids program. For the younger kids (5-7) I use 3 techniques per belt. Sure, doesn't sound like much, but it gives them a solid base to grow from, and a smaller amount of material so they can acutally remember and potentially use it if they had to. PLEASE, I'm not trying to say "my kids curriculum is better because..."...I'm only sharing what I do, and it is very liquid, it could easily change.

Remember, kids don't want to learn about the clock system. They don't care about 3:00, 6:00, 9:00, 12:00, much less 1:30, 4:30, etc. BUT, you make a game out of it (as you said you did)...you're now teaching them what they don't care about...they will learn it, without realizing they're learning it. It's the same with nearly EVERYTHING with kids. Teach them without them realizing you're teaching them.

Best example (ok, shoot me, I'm a geek)...karate kid movie (first one)..."all you've done is make me work my butt off"..."show me, wax on wax off"...WHAM...glow of comprehension in the eyes.

I focus a lot on kicks, kids love to kick, kicking set, make up your own kicking sets and games.

Well, that's my parking meter change for the day. Love to hear other ideas, as I said I'm just re-starting my kids program this month.

Thanks!

Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

That said, would you teach the full 24 techniques per belt for children? Per technique and belt you should always teach the principles and basics that really matter. You should also teach how to adapt etc. This is more a matter of HOW you teach the curriculum. I am also aware of the need to teach universal concepts etc. I want to know if people out there in Kenpo land are teaching the full system or not.
Thanks!

BTW Touch of Death
What do you normally teach the 7-12 group?

Actually our kids don't advance belt levels until they have the same things the adults have to to. The focus is on principles of motion.
Sean

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

Thank you! That is what I wanted to hear...someone teaching the same system to kids and adults.

If you aren't teaching the principles of motion you aren't teaching Kenpo. My comments earlier about different expectations referred more to power, etc. versus adults.
Thanks for the insights.


Side note:
Back to the 6'2" adult versus child. While an adult may not push or attempt to grab a child from a standing position, it is not inconceivable for this to occur with the adult seated or on one knee. I would love to hear how other people adapt the principles of techniques to such scenarios.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The "Specialized Moves" portion of the art is really over rated, but a good selling part for adult programs. The nature of the attack and the family grouping of like ideas is where its at.
Sean

 

[Warrior-Scholar]

I appreciate your consistent attempts to emphasize the family groupings and principles of motion. I agree. My instructor is Kevin Lamkin. I think you will find he has done his homework on family groupings and master key movements-hopefully this has rubbed off on me. I know many people abuse the system. I hope my question about teaching the 24 techs to kids hasn't obscured my concern for the heart of Kenpo. The real question behind all of this, whether 16-24-32, is something you already addressed...should we teach the kids the same curriculum?

Thanks again.

 

[Ceicei]

I see many are advocating a lesser number of techniques, or a gentler version.

For those who teach children the same as for the adults (according to TOD), just wondering if you modify the teaching methods for children even though you may have the same expectations with the curricula?

I've heard it said that children aren't really "little adults".

- Ceicei

 

[teej]

If you want to teach all the techniques I suggest teaching partial techniques then when they get older and retain more, are more responsible etc., you can add the rest of the techniques bringing them up to the adult version of the techniques. Example, 5 swords you may want to only teach up to the heal palm. Or locked wing just the back elbow strike. The easier techniques you can teach the entire technique. Ex. delayed sword- teach the entire technique but for kids change the outward chop to the neck into an outward back fist to the face. This is the same timing and motion and it won't change the base. When they get older, change it to the chop to the neck for your adult version.

[Remember that the first move of any technique is always the most important as if you mess it up defending yourself, you may not get to the next moves. Also, in reality, the first 2-3 moves of all the techniques should stop an attack or get the student to the point where they can escape.]

If you want to teach a lesser amount of techniques, then pick a technique from a similar family group the as similar motion and mechanics. Then again, when these kid students get older you add the other techniques bringing them up to the adult level and adult versions.

Remember Kenpo is not about the number of techniques you know or how many moves you can do. Kenpo existed long before our current technique based version did.

Hope this helps,
Teej

 

[Touch Of Death]

I see many are advocating a lesser number of techniques, or a gentler version.

For those who teach children the same as for the adults (according to TOD), just wondering if you modify the teaching methods for children even though you may have the same expectations with the curricula?

I've heard it said that children aren't really "little adults".

- Ceicei

To that I ask what are you teaching the adults? What part do you feel is not child friendly? The childrens program is actualy tougher than the adult program, to be honest.
sean

 

[DuneViking]

Greetings

I have been teaching a childs program (Tae Kwon Do) since 1.5.06 for kids 6-12. While I teach all 22 of our basics, I do limit the emphasis to 7 or 8 ber belt. I also incrporarate other developmental excerises to work both on the childs physical and mental status. Considering the differences of children of different ages, there are several drills to develop their co-ordination and muscle tone made into "games" that are not strictly martial art techniques. Kids at these ages can learn a lot, but in short bursts, and they need interaction with peers to keep interested. The other important aspect is the environmental awareness, simple things they should all know like their full name, address, phone, emergency contacts, how to AVOID dangerous situations rather than overcome them. I also introduce our basic philosopy of courtesy, integrity, perserverence, self-control and imdomitable spirit. All of this is given at but a spoonfull at a time until they thirst for more. Hope this helps

 

[cdhall]

W-S,

My apologies for not reading this entire thread before replying but I skimmed it and thought this may be of interest.

Contact Mr. Duffy, my instructor via his website link. He developed a Kids curriculum 20-30 years ago and had many discussions with Mr. Parker about it. It led Mr. Parker to consider adopting Mr. Duffy's 16 Technique curriculum which compliments the kids curricuum.

He has had some details posted here for several years now

http://www.akfkenpo.com/curriculum/index.html

 

[Kenpobuff]

I agree that to keep the kid's interest and motivation you have to allow them to progress at a reasonable rate and not overwelm them with details of physics and motion that they are not capable of understanding or don't care about at their age. I saw this in the face of a youngster last night as I was teaching a long technique to him. His face glazed over and it took him all night to get one technique (adult version) half way proficient.

In my school, if I ever open one, the kids will have a version they can have fun with as they learn the concepts of motion and still learn self awareness and self defense. As a certified gymnastics instructor with USAG their whole concept in teaching is based around positive and deliberate progression as the athlete goes from one level to the next. Kenpo shouldn't be much different.