Kenpo Karambit Association

[Kirk]

How much can you teach in one kenpo seminar?

 

[M F]

Kirk,
This is the impression I get from talking to Mr. Collado and a few others who have seen these applications in person. The Kenpo Karambit program uses Kenpo technique movements, only with this unique weapon inserted into the mix. I think what you would learn in a seminar would be how to effectively insert the karambit into the Kenpo movements that you already know. So, you wouldn't need to learn anything new, motion wise, in order to use this weapon. This is all from conversations I've had with a few individuals, and not from first hand experience, so Mr. Collado, please correct me if I'm off base here.

 

[kenpohands]

It depends on
1. Student level
2. Experience
3. Time factor
Usually a 3 hr seminar will cover the basic karambit handling applications. An 8 hr will get you into basic applications and theory!
AC

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by kenpohands
Why? We don't carry double edged karambits. The folders are all single edged karambits and are as legal as a common folder! Nothing illegal about it. THe trainers work well in the Kenpo Karambit applications and are 100% legal. Lots of pain and NO blood! I would not carry a double edge karambit That I know would be grey area!! We do have our own plastic trainers as well and us them all the time! Most of my female students carry them all the time.

Thanks for the great conversation,
Salute
Angelo Collado

PENAL CODE SECTION 12020-12040
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
171.5. c.2 Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the blade of which is fixed in an unguarded position by the use of one or two hands.
Penal Code Section 12020 & Section 653k
Anything capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal. All concealed knives are a felony (except non locking folders).

 

[Big Pat]

The Cold Steel catalogs have always listed what knives are legal to carry concealed in California. The CRPA [Calif. Rifle and Pistol Assoc.] has information on the types of knives that are Calif. legal. I carry a 4 inch folder [Cold Steel Simitar] with a liner lock at all times. The Karambit looks like an intersting weapon. The latest issue of Tractical Knives {Vol.9 #6 Nov.03} has on article on 11 First-Rate instructors-"At the Head of the Class" that includes Mr. Trarani but the Karambit is not mentioned in the article.

EKP RIP
Big Pat

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by kenpohands
Hello,
I am proud to announce the formation of the Kenpo Karambit Association. The co-founders are myself and Steve Tarani. The concept behind the KKA is the ancient blade of Karambit meets the modern day concepts and principles of Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate.
I have merged my 30 years experience with Tarani's karambit applications and have developed a system that ANY kenpoist can addapt to. No major modifications needed to manuver the Karambit around within the Kenpo System. I will be forming classes in Glendora open to all Kenpoist all ranks.
Visit www.kenpokarambit.com for more information.
If you are interested in joining a class or the KKA contact me at [email protected]

Hi Folks!
Angelo! Congratulations on the creation of the KKA [yet another anacronym on the "seasame street of Kenpo related groups" LOL!
Seriously, I've used the Kerambit/karambit since 1985 and I've had the pleasure of working with several different filipino and indonesian martial arts instructors on the use of the kerambit. I used the Tripoz "Raptor" kerambit/karambit originally in the chrome then the black teflon covered versions. There are different individuals who have used the kerambit/karambit to enhance their art [Art Gitlin and hak lung chuan for example]. I had the pleasure of watching Mr. Collado's form as he prepared to compete at the IKC in Boston and it was a joy to behold he blending of the EPAKK and silat concepts as well as never before seen 2 kerambit use [you have to see it to truly apprecate it!]
Due to Angello's performance and detailing out his aspects on the Kenpo Kerambit,I've decided to join the KKA and endorse Mr. Collado in his ventures as well as encourage students to learn how to use this wonderful tool.
Please take the time to inquire about the use of the kerambit and it's application to kenpo!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Stick Dummy


Karambits will definately add some "new spin" to any form of Kenpo - techs or otherwise. Just make sure you hold on tight and don't throw them at spectators. :rofl:

Hi Stick Dummy!
I was at the IKC and i'm sorry that I didn't get to meet you [or did I?] It was unfortunate what happened during angelo's form [i was glad to see in it's entirety before he competed, however] and thankfully it went to an area that there was no one around, actually one of my students retrieved the karambit for Angello and all was well.

I showed GD-7 & Farnsworth my leetle bitty custom Filipino style (spur blade) karambit and it looked like a folding nail trimmer in his paw err, hand.]

I would love to see that design as I'm am avid weapons collector and instructor and i'm always looking for a new "favorite weapon"

You coming down for the next seminar at Shepherd?? Maybe we can hide in a corner of the gym, and compare Karambit techs.

I wish we had met at the IKC, I brought a "bag of kerambits" of different designs to discuss the weapon and art in more detail...we would have had a great time! Angello and I did just that when he visited Boston for the event!
Hope to meet you sometime!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
Hi Stick Dummy!
I was at the IKC and i'm sorry that I didn't get to meet you [or did I?] It was unfortunate what happened during angelo's form [i was glad to see in it's entirety before he competed, however] and thankfully it went to an area that there was no one around, actually one of my students retrieved the karambit for Angello and all was well.


BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

You mean the judges actually let people do forms with live weapons, that's a first I've heard of?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Seig
First of all, the threat, which seems real and not implied, is against Martial Talk policy. Please do not do it again.

Hi Seig!
It was a pleasure to finally meet you,Tess, and your students at the IKC! I'm sure that no malice was intended by Mr. Collado's statements,rather a sincere willingness to exchange infornation and "share the wealth" as it were!
We always suffer with a medium that is hackled by not being able to convey intonation and "the spirit" of the post.
BTW, while we are on a weapons topic, I saw one of your students [I believe] with Katana performing iaijutsu/iaido kata, was that your guy?
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[kenpohands]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
[653k
Anything capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal. All concealed knives are a felony (except non locking folders). [/B]

By the way the Karambit folders are designed it is not possible to directly stab a target, As you would be able to with a regular knife or a shank. Different mechanics would have to be used in order to do this. You would be performing a movement that is not defined as illegal. You do however must not have it concealed. It must be worn with part of the ring visible and with the clip showing. Steve Tarani spent many hours and $ doing the research for the Folder design. His folders are legal, Remember Steve Tarani works with and trains all the people who write the penal codes in Washington. From FBI, CIA, DEA and hundreds of State ant local police departments. In many of the karambit classes There are nothing but Police there. I was in Ft Myers Florida and did a class with the head of the Police traning division. They fell in love with the folder.
It is legal. If you get in trouble with it it is probably because your doing something wrong with it, or the officer does not know the penal code well. I always carry the entire code in my car at all times as a reference.
AC

 

[kenpohands]

Originally posted by M F
Kirk,
This is the impression I get from talking to Mr. Collado and a few others who have seen these applications in person. The Kenpo Karambit program uses Kenpo technique movements, only with this unique weapon inserted into the mix. I think what you would learn in a seminar would be how to effectively insert the karambit into the Kenpo movements that you already know. So, you wouldn't need to learn anything new, motion wise, in order to use this weapon. This is all from conversations I've had with a few individuals, and not from first hand experience, so Mr. Collado, please correct me if I'm off base here.

You are correct in the understanding of what the Kenpo Karambit is. I also train with the Tarani system, but this is a different application all together. Tarani Karambit and Kenpo Karambit are not the same thing! Kenpo Karambit is geared for the kenpoist(martial artist) Tarani was a major part of the structure and design if the Kenpo Karambit. Most of the Hardcore guys Tarani works with are not all in a structured traditional Martial Arts disipline. They only do tactical combat training. That is thier Martial art!
AC

 

[kenpohands]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
You mean the judges actually let people do forms with live weapons, that's a first I've heard of?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

For some reason folks thought that they were live blades. Hell I am not that crazy. I get cut up enough training with live blades. They were the aluminum trainers. They look real sharp but are dull all the way around. Bob Liles inspected the trainers all was cool .
AC

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by kenpohands
For some reason folks thought that they were live blades. Hell I am not that crazy. I get cut up enough training with live blades. They were the aluminum trainers. They look real sharp but are dull all the way around. Bob Liles inspected the trainers all was cool .
AC

Glad to hear it, thought things were getting silly on the East Coast LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
You mean the judges actually let people do forms with live weapons, that's a first I've heard of?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Hi Clyde!
To answer your question, the kerambits were not sharp,rather a aluminum training kerambit.
Hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Seig
Yes, I perceived it as a threat. You state I was and am wrong. I can accept that. I appreciate that you want to share your experiences with the karambit, and maybe someday, we will get an opportunity to compare notes on what you are learning/teaching versus what Stick Dummy has been learning/teaching. I saw the accident, I was there. It was unfortunate, but fortunately, no one was seriously injured. Had someone been injured, I can assure you, no joke would have been made. I did not perceive a threat to myself, I perceived a threat made to another board member. In the past, that has been a serious issue here. Apparently, he and I were the only ones to perceive such, so the issue is now a dead horse :deadhorse:. Good Journey.

Hi Seig,
Didn't see this response when I wrote mine! Maybe I was beating Mr. Ed because he talks in his sleep! :rofl:
NOTE: THAT WAS A JOKE AND NO MALICIOUS INTENT WAS INTENDED!
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[Michael Billings]

Jason & other Texas Martial kinda guys: With the exception of San Antonio, who have a Municipal Ordinance against carrying locking folders, the penal code in Texas defines an Illegal Knife as:

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

The Penal Code in Texas also defines "Knife" as:

(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

This is defined, not because they are illegal, but to have a legal definition of a weapon if used in an illegal way. I know this is somewhat confusing, but just because it is defined as a knife, does not make it an "Illegal Knife". It is no big surprise that California is more restrictive in it's definition of "Illegal" knives.

Check your State's statutes, usually a search on Google will get you the Penal Code. Then search for "Definitions - Weapons" within the Statutes. Better safe than sorry.

-MB

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I looked up the Texas penal code, since that was the one being discussed, and I saw nothing about the posession of a double edged knife. Does this mean that Texas allows the carry of double edged blades?

Is there any one in Texas or California Law Enforcement on the board that would care to comment?

I'll see if I cant find the California law next. Interesting Point M. Billings thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by kenpohands
By the way the Karambit folders are designed it is not possible to directly stab a target, As you would be able to with a regular knife or a shank. Different mechanics would have to be used in order to do this. You would be performing a movement that is not defined as illegal. You do however must not have it concealed. It must be worn with part of the ring visible and with the clip showing. Steve Tarani spent many hours and $ doing the research for the Folder design. His folders are legal, Remember Steve Tarani works with and trains all the people who write the penal codes in Washington. From FBI, CIA, DEA and hundreds of State ant local police departments. In many of the karambit classes There are nothing but Police there. I was in Ft Myers Florida and did a class with the head of the Police traning division. They fell in love with the folder.
It is legal. If you get in trouble with it it is probably because your doing something wrong with it, or the officer does not know the penal code well. I always carry the entire code in my car at all times as a reference.
AC

Brother,

It just seems to me that the law is not very clear, and that anyone can get "busted" for carrying any kind of knife as long as the cop wants to be a jerk about it... Then it's your word against his, and the legal bills aren't worth the trouble in my book.

Just a thought,
Billy :asian:

 

[arnisador]

From this thread:

Knife Laws by State

My understanding has been the same as Mr. Lear's--a police officer has wide discretion and there are many issues of interpretation.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
Jason & other Texas Martial kinda guys: With the exception of San Antonio, who have a Municipal Ordinance against carrying locking folders, the penal code in Texas defines an Illegal Knife as:

The Penal Code in Texas also defines "Knife" as:
This is defined, not because they are illegal, but to have a legal definition of a weapon if used in an illegal way. I know this is somewhat confusing, but just because it is defined as a knife, does not make it an "Illegal Knife". It is no big surprise that California is more restrictive in it's definition of "Illegal" knives.

Check your State's statutes, usually a search on Google will get you the Penal Code. Then search for "Definitions - Weapons" within the Statutes. Better safe than sorry.

-MB

Cool,

But I wonder how they define "dagger". A short weapon used for stabbing, like Websters? If so then the Kerambit would "roughly" fall within those parameters depending on your level of training with it. Other than that I would wonder about intent. The Kerambit is nothing short of a weapon of unlimited destruction used to "strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger" to bring a little pulp fiction into the mix:ubercool:. A blade can be talked up as a box cutter or something you use for work. Every kicker down here in truck town has one. But put a Kerambit in front of a judge and he's gonna say "Box cutter my a**...". It seems to me that the law is set, but has the capacity to be fluid when people get creative and try to ride the line on what has been put in writing. Just my opinion. Mr. B, if I ever get a chance to come up to your place I'll bring a couple so we can check them out.

jb:asian: