Keeping Hands Up

[MI_martialist]

No, not at all. That would be rather ridiculous! Imagine being in a formal seated posture facing the bench. Place hands on the bench, and train the kicking mechanics across the bench.

So you're asking me to tell him to sit on a bench and tell him to kick the air?

 

[geezer]

No, not at all. That would be rather ridiculous! Imagine being in a formal seated posture facing the bench. Place hands on the bench, and train the kicking mechanics across the bench.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. I think of a bench as something pretty low, ...no more than knee height. So even in a low stance, if your hands were on the bench, they would be ridiculously low. A low table would be only slightly better. So I don't believe this is what you mean. Could you clarify, or perhaps find a picture to post?

By way of disclosure, I'm a Chunner and an older guy so I don't even do high kicks anymore. But here's two examples of a high round-kick with what appears to be functional hand positioning. Neither shows hands that look like they would rest on a bench, although second one shows a very low stance in the right hand photo. Even so, the hands are certainly above bench-height. I found many examples on line, but I picked these for obvious reasons:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/POwOhRnYixs/maxresdefault.jpg

http://images.fitnessmagazine.mdpcdn.com/sites/fitnessmagazine.com/files/u814/1.jpg

 

[MI_martialist]

Sit in seiza facing a bench or low table. Rise from seiza to an elevated position on your knees, active toes. Place the palms of both hands on the bench or low table. Adjust and perform the kick sliding the leg and foot over the bench or table. Your hands are pretty much in a guard position while the kick is being done. Trajectory is correct, chamber (both times) is correct in order to return the leg.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing this. I think of a bench as something pretty low, ...no more than knee height. So even in a low stance, if your hands were on the bench, they would be ridiculously low. A low table would be only slightly better. So I don't believe this is what you mean. Could you clarify, or perhaps find a picture to post?

By way of disclosure, I'm a Chunner and an older guy so I don't even do high kicks anymore. But here's two examples of a high round-kick with what appears to be functional hand positioning. Neither shows hands that look like they would rest on a bench, although second one shows a very low stance in the right hand photo. Even so, the hands are certainly above bench-height. I found many examples on line, but I picked these for obvious reasons:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/POwOhRnYixs/maxresdefault.jpg

http://images.fitnessmagazine.mdpcdn.com/sites/fitnessmagazine.com/files/u814/1.jpg

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not familiar with the term, what is a formal seated posture, please? Thanks.

I have the same question. When we say "formal seated", we mean seiza - the formal kneeling position (as opposed to cross-legged, the "informal seated" position). I'm not sure how you would initiate a kick from seiza.

 

[MI_martialist]

Actually, classically, all base attacks were first instructed from seiza in order to prevent many of the issues that we see when instructing from a standing posture at first.

If you want, visit:

MSI GUESTS 000

which is a quick intro to what we do, and my trainer. There is a contact form that can be used. He can express this better than I can.

I have the same question. When we say "formal seated", we mean seiza - the formal kneeling position (as opposed to cross-legged, the "informal seated" position). I'm not sure how you would initiate a kick from seiza.

 

[geezer]

Actually, classically, all base attacks were first instructed from seiza in order to prevent many of the issues that we see when instructing from a standing posture at first.

Speaking as a geezer, all I can say is "ouch". I was born with bone-fusions in my ankles and stiff joints all around. Even when I was young and stretching daily, --I did achieve front an back splits at one point-- but seiza was not an option. Now, with 60 years behind me, a couple of broken legs, and a couple of knee surgeries, attempting seiza would cripple me for life! I'll stick to low kicks delivered from a high stance. And, of course keeping my hands up!

Interestingly, my son inherited my fused ankles (makes balancing on one leg quite a challenge) but got his mother's knee and hip structure. He has always been able to drop into seiza effortlessly. He does TKD, and sometimes drops his hands when kicking . I should challenge him to try your drill!

 

[Buka]

There is a contact form that can be used. He can express this better than I can.

How long have you been training?

 

[MI_martialist]

Just north of 20 years.

How long have you been training?

 

[MI_martialist]

Of course, in a case like this one, modifications to training would be made to accommodate and ensure that everyone can train. Remember that classical training pre-dates traditional martial arts, so the need for everyone to know how to handle combat was of the utmost importance. That said, they found ways to make it so everyone could fight!

Speaking as a geezer, all I can say is "ouch". I was born with bone-fusions in my ankles and stiff joints all around. Even when I was young and stretching daily, --I did achieve front an back splits at one point-- but seiza was not an option. Now, with 60 years behind me, a couple of broken legs, and a couple of knee surgeries, attempting seiza would cripple me for life! I'll stick to low kicks delivered from a high stance. And, of course keeping my hands up!

Interestingly, my son inherited my fused ankles (makes balancing on one leg quite a challenge) but got his mother's knee and hip structure. He has always been able to drop into seiza effortlessly. He does TKD, and sometimes drops his hands when kicking . I should challenge him to try your drill!

 

[Chris Parker]

Start all kicks from a formal seated posture, and in the case of roundhouse kick, use a bench, or low table from the formal seated position to train in trajectory, optimal sequencing, and hand position.

Why?

Actually, classically, all base attacks were first instructed from seiza in order to prevent many of the issues that we see when instructing from a standing posture at first.

Er… huh? I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but… uh… maybe don't?

If you want, visit:

MSI GUESTS 000

which is a quick intro to what we do, and my trainer. There is a contact form that can be used. He can express this better than I can.

Hmm… that didn't add much in the way of answers, honestly… just more questions…

 

[Tez3]

Sit in seiza facing a bench or low table. Rise from seiza to an elevated position on your knees, active toes. Place the palms of both hands on the bench or low table. Adjust and perform the kick sliding the leg and foot over the bench or table. Your hands are pretty much in a guard position while the kick is being done. Trajectory is correct, chamber (both times) is correct in order to return the leg.

Or you could just learn to do the kick properly in the first place.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Whacking him in the head with a paddle or a noodle is good. Another suggestion is; every time he drops his hands give him pushups.

 

[Tez3]

Whacking him in the head with a paddle or a noodle is good. Another suggestion is; every time he drops his hands give him pushups.

Much better than knackering the knees with odd sitting drills, whacking then round the head works very well.

 

[crazydiamond]

Nothing to add - except my instructor is always all over us about not doping our hands during kicking - particularly in Thai kicks which I see in alot of MT youtubes. I just had to keep trying.

 

[drop bear]

Nothing to add - except my instructor is always all over us about not doping our hands during kicking - particularly in Thai kicks which I see in alot of MT youtubes. I just had to keep trying.

They go head off line instead.

 

[Prostar]

Two things to try.

1. Have the student hold onto his ear lobes. You really can't swing your arms around whilst holding the ears.
2. Try throwing a set of punches right after throwing a kick. Knowing that a punch is coming after the kick helps the student to keep the hands up.

 

[Prostar]

I've told students this already.

Ever see one of those wooden toys where, when you pull the string, the toy man's hands fly up and the legs flu out? That's what you look like.

And yet another thing to try is to change their perspective...literally.

Pull a student aside and tell him to watch another who is doing the same thing. "That's what you look like."

 

[Langenschwert]

Just tie them in place. Works for practising Bob and weave.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Ever see one of those wooden toys where, when you pull the string, the toy man's hands fly up and the legs flu out? That's what you look like.

Like Kermit the frog.

 

[JP3]

I didn't stop to read the entire thread, so if this tip is already out there then I apologize.

Have the student grab their own ears. Sounds dumb, but works. They will feel it instantly when they either let go, or start to pull their ears off their head.

If they feel neither, then their arm position has improved. Might not be perfect, but MUCH better than at their sides, right?