Katrina Exposes Poverty and Race relations

[Makalakumu]

This debate has been raging deep in another thread. I thought a thread of its own would bring more traffic...

See this article...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9163091/

 

[Makalakumu]

Please read the following...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2124688/

Or you can listen to NPR's story on Day to Day here...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...storyId=4829960

Here is a little historical evidence on the issue of race and floods...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/flood/..._headlines.html

 

[Tgace]

If I were a emergency worker in New Orleans wading through filth, finding bodies, getting shot at and working inhuman hours to help people, Id be offended at the implication that I didnt care about black people.

 

[Makalakumu]

If I were a emergency worker in New Orleans wading through filth, finding bodies, getting shot at and working inhuman hours to help people, Id be offended at the implication that I didnt care about black people.

I don't think its that deliberate. This is a larger social problem.

 

[arnisador]

You get looting like this everywhere. It's nothing special about N.O. or its residents.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

If I were a emergency worker in New Orleans wading through filth, finding bodies, getting shot at and working inhuman hours to help people, Id be offended at the implication that I didnt care about black people.

I haven't really heard of anyone (anyone credible) accusing those involved with Search and Rescue of being racist. In fact, I believe that many rescuers will have long term ill health and psychological effects as the result of their service. They are heroes in every sense of the word.

I HAVE heard some very credible people asking if many in the nation, the government included (parts), did not hold, consciously or subconsciously, the largely black population of New Orleans at the same value that they would have for largely caucasian community of similiar size.

Thats a hard question, and one that we as a people must ask ourselves. The level of public outrage that, IMO, prompted a more vigorous response from the Federal Government on the weekend after the levee broke (as opposed to the day after it broke), should have come sooner and been far greater.

I know that opportunists of all political sides and persuasions are going to come out of the woodwork to jump on this issue - but that should not deter the rest of us from taking a good hard look ourselves.

 

[Rich Parsons]

If I were a emergency worker in New Orleans wading through filth, finding bodies, getting shot at and working inhuman hours to help people, Id be offended at the implication that I didnt care about black people.

Maybe if I say something enough times it will be true also.

Or Maybe I should just quote some others, and if I do it enough, then everyone will believe that it is true.

 

[Rich Parsons]

You get looting like this everywhere. It's nothing special about N.O. or its residents.

Maybe if I say something enough times it will be true also.

Or Maybe I should just quote some others, and if I do it enough, then everyone will believe that it is true.



And I agree that it is not Unique to New Orleans.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I haven't really heard of anyone (anyone credible) accusing those involved with Search and Rescue of being racist. In fact, I believe that many rescuers will have long term ill health and psychological effects as the result of their service. They are heroes in every sense of the word.

I HAVE heard some very credible people asking if many in the nation, the government included (parts), did not hold, consciously or subconsciously, the largely black population of New Orleans at the same value that they would have for largely caucasian community of similiar size.

Thats a hard question, and one that we as a people must ask ourselves. The level of public outrage that, IMO, prompted a more vigorous response from the Federal Government on the weekend after the levee broke (as opposed to the day after it broke), should have come sooner and been far greater.

I know that opportunists of all political sides and persuasions are going to come out of the woodwork to jump on this issue - but that should not deter the rest of us from taking a good hard look ourselves.

Maybe if I say something enough times it will be true also.

Or Maybe I should just quote some others, and if I do it enough, then everyone will believe that it is true.


Long Term health effects for helping out people, like the long term health effects for breathing concrete in the Twin Tower event.

Maybe becuase it was New York the issue with the Twin Towers was anti - semetic, and not an issue terrorism.

 

[evenflow1121]

sry for the double post, its in the bottom.

 

[Makalakumu]

Maybe if I say something enough times it will be true also.

Or Maybe I should just quote some others, and if I do it enough, then everyone will believe that it is true.

Rich

No one is trying to say that the people down there trying to help are racist. What is being said is that the historical context matches what happened. The events of N.O. reveal a deeper national problem with race. There are a couple kinds of racism, the hard racism of segregation and the soft racism of neglect.

 

[evenflow1121]

Yes, its an interesting article I happen to disagree with it. I do however, think that recovery efforts could have been issued faster, but that is not only the federal level's responsibility, local and state governments should have also done a better job.

 

[Makalakumu]

Katrina did not hit all folks equally because the majority of New Orleans residents happen to be African American. That said, unless Katrina herself is a racist, which I am pretty sure that by now that option has probably been explored by some journalist somewhere, the devastation itself was going to be harder on blacks than whites. Yes overall, blacks probably did get hit harder, but please it was not as a result of race so much as it was as a result of where the natural disaster happenned to hit the hardest. As for the recovery efforts, I still would not say race is a factor, yes the administration did cut funds that should have gone into protecting the city from a category 4 hurricane. But the local government and the state government had to know about this as well, had an evacuation plan and never went through with it. Before Katrina made land fall it was a category 4 hurricane reaching speeds of 165 mph. I dont see this as much a racial issue, but more as a result of the government failing at all levels on this. Yeah everybody wants to blame Bush, and I am not a fan of Bush but I like my share of b/s close to my nose where I can smell it, what the hell steps did the local and state government take to protect those people, sticking them in a stadium that could not resist that wind velocity?

New Orleans is mostly black. It has one of the highest rates of poverty for any American city. It's levees were neglected and could not protect against a strong storm. It's more complicated then geography. There are social issues involved...the soft racism of neglect.

 

[Shorin Ryuu]

New Orleans is mostly black. It has one of the highest rates of poverty for any American city. It's levees were neglected and could not protect against a strong storm. It's more complicated then geography. There are social issues involved...the soft racism of neglect.

Again, you go back and talk about how the levees were neglected and could not protect against a strong storm. When confronted with the fact that it is a local problem dealing with the lack of political will of local level officials to fund such projects (as it is a local issue...any federal funding is just a "bonus"), you shrug it off and make another claim about something else. Then after you've made some more claims, you go back to your original claim which is already pure bogus. I'll say it again because you don't seem to understand...the areas where the levees broke were recently upgraded and completed...you do understand what that means? That means at the local level, there was no political will to expand the levees beyond their category 3 capability. If you want to blame someone, blame the local authorities and policy makers (some of which just happen to be black...so where is the racism again?).

I'm sure you may drop away from arguing this point then re-introduce it as fact later on. It certainly is an effective arguing tactic against those that haven't followed your entire line of debate. But against those that have, it reveals how weak your arguments really are.

 

[Tgace]

If anybody neglected the black population of New Orleans it was the city and state governments. How the federal governemnt gets the blame now is beyond me.

 

[KenpoEMT]

...How the federal governemnt gets the blame now is beyond me.

Republicans are in power, remember?

 

[Shorin Ryuu]

Republicans are in power, remember?

That statement only applies if you don't understand federalism and don't understand how the local and state officials have been the ones bungling things.

 

[Tgace]

Oh Yeah...thats right.

 

[KenpoEMT]

That statement only applies if you don't understand federalism and don't understand how the local and state officials have been the ones bungling things.

It was an attempt to make Tgace chuckle. I understand the situation.

 

[Shorin Ryuu]

Oh, haha. Sorry, my safety has been off on these threads...