Karate's Golden Age?

[drop bear]

We called that a Wheel kick in American Karate. That was my signature kick.

Blocked a few with my head as well.

I had a mate of mine try it in a kickboxing match when he was tired and had no real options left.

It didn't work. But we respected the attempt.

 

[isshinryuronin]

as though the sum total of their knowledge can only be from within the span of their lifetimes.

That's mostly human egocentric way of viewing things, a natural condition that few are able to overcome by going outside their bubble. (First, they have to realize they're in a bubble.)

I get a kick from watching youtube music reaction videos with twenty and thirty somethings being exposed to music from the 60's and 70's. They are dumbfounded and amazed at the quality of lyrics, sound, musical talent and creativity that existed in pre-computerized, purer form of music. Their minds are blown at first hearing Hendrix, Beatles, Dire Straits, Led Zepplin and Dylan and all the other greats that seem to have few peers in today's pop music as many of the reactors freely admit.

Those who have never cut into a filet mignon or prime rib may think a burger is the ultimate beef.

To accurately judge today, you must know yesterday to compare and have a point of reference. Karate is much the same. I believe the tournament karate fighters of the 70's would blow thru those of today (In fact, I think even I could hold my own, being in my 70's) even with modern rules. And those of the 30's would likely do the same with those of the 70's.

Kata is a different story. They are certainly more precise and visually impressive nowadays. These are the modern markers of quality. In the old days, kata was judged from application-based factors, so it's a bit of apples and oranges and hard to compare.

As karate has changed over the decades, so has the criteria of judging. This is natural and not in itself good or bad. But the longer the view, the better knowledge of history, the better our overall understanding of what we have today. Then, our opinions, whatever they may be, will have greater validity. This is my opinion.

 

[Buka]

That's mostly human egocentric way of viewing things, a natural condition that few are able to overcome by going outside their bubble. (First, they have to realize they're in a bubble.)

I get a kick from watching youtube music reaction videos with twenty and thirty somethings being exposed to music from the 60's and 70's. They are dumbfounded and amazed at the quality of lyrics, sound, musical talent and creativity that existed in pre-computerized, purer form of music. Their minds are blown at first hearing Hendrix, Beatles, Dire Straits, Led Zepplin and Dylan and all the other greats that seem to have few peers in today's pop music as many of the reactors freely admit.

Those who have never cut into a filet mignon or prime rib may think a burger is the ultimate beef.

To accurately judge today, you must know yesterday to compare and have a point of reference. Karate is much the same. I believe the tournament karate fighters of the 70's would blow thru those of today (In fact, I think even I could hold my own, being in my 70's) even with modern rules. And those of the 30's would likely do the same with those of the 70's.

Kata is a different story. They are certainly more precise and visually impressive nowadays. These are the modern markers of quality. In the old days, kata was judged from application-based factors, so it's a bit of apples and oranges and hard to compare.

As karate has changed over the decades, so has the criteria of judging. This is natural and not in itself good or bad. But the longer the view, the better knowledge of history, the better our overall understanding of what we have today. Then, our opinions, whatever they may be, will have greater validity. This is my opinion.
[/QUOTE

I went and watched a tournament a few years ago to see my buddy’s son compete. I couldn’t believe it. Not only could you compete and win, (honest) but you would refuse to. It would be like drowning puppies, it was that bad.

 

[isshinryuronin]

"I went and watched a tournament a few years ago to see my buddy’s son compete. I couldn’t believe it. Not only could you compete and win, (honest) but you would refuse to. It would be like drowning puppies, it was that bad."

Buka hit a wrong button. This is his response to my post that he quoted in the above post.

 

[Fungus]

There was a point there where K1 Was the manliest of combat sports.

And karate had a big representation. Sam greco from Australia. Andy Hug from wherever he was from.

Karate was just straight up cool at that point.

I fully agree, Andy Hug is indeed a legend that I also associate to that "golden era" and he was from Switzerland.

He was a legendary kyokushin master and also kickboxer. One of the top legends an inspiration in my opinion.

Just like when I think of a stepping side kick I think about bruce lee, when I think about a spinning heel to the legs or an axe kick I immediately envision Andy Hugs way of doing it.

Andys awesome kicks are inspiring me, even I only have a fraction of his flexibility . His signature kicks was amazing axe kicks and devastating spinning heel kick to the legs.

 

[Fungus]

We called that a Wheel kick in American Karate. That was my signature kick.

Did you "fall" after that kick?

The key distiction between what I am aware of as "wheel kick" and "rolling thunder" is that in a wheel keep you keep your supporting leg on the ground and just pivot. With rolling thunder, like in that video he "rolls" diagonally in the air and the supporting foot leaves the ground. But the heel may strike the head in both cases, but at slightly different angles.

 

[HighKick]

This is an interesting question because I'm sure everyone would define the "golden age" in a different way based on what they love the most about their art. With that in mind there can be multiple golden ages. A golden age for the development of karate, a golden age for the expansion of karate around the world, a golden age for the sport, etc.

Despite what a lot of people would say, I would argue that the quality of karate as whole is better now than it has ever been mainly because of the global economy improving overall health allowing everyone to train well into "old age", rapid spread of information and expanding the ease of access to shareable information. Sure, this has also caused an eruption of less than reputable dojo across the world, but it has also helped serious karateka connect and meet with other like minded individuals in a way that was historically not possible.I

I agree. And I hope this never stops. The 'Golden Age' is relative to the student. There are people like @skribs who like is in his golden age trying to get his first school started. I pray things like this never end.

 

[Buka]

Did you "fall" after that kick?

The key distiction between what I am aware of as "wheel kick" and "rolling thunder" is that in a wheel keep you keep your supporting leg on the ground and just pivot. With rolling thunder, like in that video he "rolls" diagonally in the air and the supporting foot leaves the ground. But the heel may strike the head in both cases, but at slightly different angles.

It depends on the circumstances. If I was using it as an completely offensive technique
I wouldn’t fall down any more than I could fall throwing a side kick (or whatever).

If I was throwing it defensively, from more of a side stance, and the opponent blitzed in, I’d often times lean back into a fall and wrap the back of my knee into the neck, quickly bending my knee and taking him down in a headlock kind of kick. That might sound odd but it’s pretty easy to do.

If the wheel was part of a combination (coming after an initial technique) I’d adjust where my foot was coming down to follow his direction. And hopefully not get outfoxed by his footwork.

As for the rolling thunder thing….throwing a quarter turn roundhouse kick (back leg) into an opponents mid section or his guard so he’d catch the kick was the biggest sucker move of the seventies and eighties. You just kept your momentum going and throw the wheel kick to the head as hard, or as not hard as you wanted. (There’s a really easy and kind of cool way to train this. Even easier when training kids.)

The one downside to getting your initial kick caught and throwing the wheel as a follow up, is its counter. Just let go of the caught leg. The guy throwing the wheel will spin into the floor so fricken hard it’s really funny. Hurts sometimes, too.

Another thing you could do with a wheel kick is extend the foot at the end of the kick and slap with the ball of the foot or bottom of the foot. We used to do that if you really didn’t like the opponent, but didn’t want to necessarily take his head off. (Metaphorically)

 

[Buka]

"I went and watched a tournament a few years ago to see my buddy’s son compete. I couldn’t believe it. Not only could you compete and win, (honest) but you would refuse to. It would be like drowning puppies, it was that bad."

Buka hit a wrong button. This is his response to my post that he quoted in the above post.

Thanks, brother. My stiff old hands somehow deleted the little bracket thingy on the “quote”