Karate Kicks

[SirKicksAlot]

So, does anyone know or have an idea of how many kicks were in the original karate? By original I mean Okinawan Te. I know that when Gichin brought Karate to Japan, there weren't very many kicks and pretty much all below waist. But then his son Gigo added the more flashier kicks, perhaps inspired by Savate. Then, when Shotokan morphed into Tang Soo Do/ Taekwon Do in Korea, more kicks were emphasized to be more in line with traditional Korean kicking methods. As a lifelong practitioner of Korean arts, I am getting over the whole kicking thing, especially as I am post 50. I would like to practice a more traditional art that does not include many kicks. Not boxing and not grappling. So, what is the story on kicks and how they evolved to be such a defining characteristic of Karate?

 

[Badhabits]

I believe it was mostly variations of front and crescent, with some side and back kicks sprinkled in there. Pretty conservative kicking wise. I get the impression they were pretty much aimed no higher than the lower ribs.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I believe it was mostly variations of front and crescent, with some side and back kicks sprinkled in there. Pretty conservative kicking wise. I get the impression they were pretty much aimed no higher than the lower ribs.

I'd say low front kicks for sure with some side kicks (usually downward to the knee). Crescents would be rare and back kicks even rarer (usually a bad idea to have your back to an enemy).

how they evolved to be such a defining characteristic of Karate?

Kicks probably gained popularity due to their longer range for use in sport karate, later development from increased emphasis on technique form and execution.

 

[Thonged warrior]

I'd say low front kicks for sure with some side kicks (usually downward to the knee). Crescents would be rare and back kicks even rarer (usually a bad idea to have your back to an enemy).

Kicks probably gained popularity due to their longer range for use in sport karate, later development from increased emphasis on technique form and execution.

High kicks are useless in real combat especially in a crowded area
All showmanship..

 

[Same Trick]

Not to much kicking in traditional karate -

“As Harry Cook notes in his preface, 39% of the “winning techniques” involve boxing, 29% are throws or escapes, 17% include locks and submissions and only 4% are kicks.”


The Bubishi: Innovation, Tradition and the Southern Chinese Martial Arts



Looking at traditional karate kata it seems as three kind of kicks are present- mae geri(front kick), mikazuki geri(a kind of roundhouse kick more common described as crescent kick in English) and ushiro-geri( back kick, traditionally executed while leaning forward supporting upper body with hands on the ground). Goju-ryu has a downward side- kick’ish thing in one of their kata.

The Swedish karate nerd Jesse Enkamp argue that modern karate took influence from French Savate to broaden its kicking arsenal.

How Karate Stole Its Kicks (Video)

 

[PhotonGuy]

So, does anyone know or have an idea of how many kicks were in the original karate? By original I mean Okinawan Te. I know that when Gichin brought Karate to Japan, there weren't very many kicks and pretty much all below waist. But then his son Gigo added the more flashier kicks, perhaps inspired by Savate. Then, when Shotokan morphed into Tang Soo Do/ Taekwon Do in Korea, more kicks were emphasized to be more in line with traditional Korean kicking methods. As a lifelong practitioner of Korean arts, I am getting over the whole kicking thing, especially as I am post 50. I would like to practice a more traditional art that does not include many kicks. Not boxing and not grappling. So, what is the story on kicks and how they evolved to be such a defining characteristic of Karate?

Im not sure how many kicks were in original Okinawa Te but the first kicks taught to me when I first took up Karate were the front kick, the side kick, and the roundhouse kick, and from my experience those are the kicks used most often, along with the knee strike for close in fighting. The front kick in particular is the most commonly used kick in the katas that I know.

if you're looking for a traditional art that doesn't use much kicks, you could look into some of the southern Chinese styles of kung fu, I believe they use mostly hand strikes and not that many kicks.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

A lot of them were pinched from other martial arts, from savate according to Jesse "karate nerd" Enkamp. I'm mildly suspicious of this claim because I continue this tradition by wholesale theft of entire kata from other fighting systems, and various systems of chinese martial arts and especially taekwondo do feature high, spectacular kicks. Incidentally, thonged warrior, if the early UFC fights show anything it's that kicks to jodan can and do get used in real fights.

 

[Thonged warrior]

A lot of them were pinched from other martial arts, from savate according to Jesse "karate nerd" Enkamp. I'm mildly suspicious of this claim because I continue this tradition by wholesale theft of entire kata from other fighting systems, and various systems of chinese martial arts and especially taekwondo do feature high, spectacular kicks. Incidentally, thonged warrior, if the early UFC fights show anything it's that kicks to jodan can and do get used in real fights.

Never seen a head kicked used on the street it's usually a good right hander that sorts it out.
Remember these UFC guys are Pros..your average thug in a bar isn't

 

[Gyakuto]

High kicks are useless in real combat especially in a crowded area
All showmanship..

JCVD could easily use a high kick in a crowded area

 

[slindsey15]

So, does anyone know or have an idea of how many kicks were in the original karate? By original I mean Okinawan Te. I know that when Gichin brought Karate to Japan, there weren't very many kicks and pretty much all below waist. But then his son Gigo added the more flashier kicks, perhaps inspired by Savate. Then, when Shotokan morphed into Tang Soo Do/ Taekwon Do in Korea, more kicks were emphasized to be more in line with traditional Korean kicking methods. As a lifelong practitioner of Korean arts, I am getting over the whole kicking thing, especially as I am post 50. I would like to practice a more traditional art that does not include many kicks. Not boxing and not grappling. So, what is the story on kicks and how they evolved to be such a defining characteristic of Karate?

If you read Funakoshi's or Mabuni's early works, there are a bunch of different hand attacks they cover in detail, and some stances, but kicking is hardly discussed at all. I think this is because Okinawan karate was a close range fighting art - and became a long range fighting art when it moved over to Japan. What I mean to say is, the Japanese changed the distance, because Judo was already popular and they didn't need another grappling art. I'd also encourage you to watch the Jesse Enkamp vido someone posted above as a direct answer to your question on where the kicks came from.

Toward your goal of looking for a more traditional art - i'd look for an okinawan style school. Shorin Ryu - Isshin Ryu, Ueichi Ryu, etc.

 

[Gyakuto]

This is interesting…

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Never seen a head kicked used on the street it's usually a good right hander that sorts it out.
Remember these UFC guys are Pros..your average thug in a bar isn't

TBF It's not something I would rely on in a fight personally, because although I can kick to head height I can only just do it and it can leave you vulnerable. The kata contain very few kicks to jodan and the ones it does contain I suspect of being there largely for conditioning purposes. I have, however, stolen tae guek yuk jang as I wanted a kata where I could practice roundhouse kicks. A lot of the guys at karate chamber for roundhouse kicks by lifting their knee as you would a mae geri and then switching round to a roundhouse kicking position, but I consider this a technical error. Naturally, I keep this view to myself.

 

[SirKicksAlot]

Thanks for all the replies. The karate nerd videos were very informative, looks like maybe Isshin Ryu may provide more emphasis on the hands than the feet?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Thanks for all the replies. The karate nerd videos were very informative, looks like maybe Isshin Ryu may provide more emphasis on the hands than the feet?

This is true for all traditional Okinawan karate styles - it's a close-quartered fighting art so the kicks tend to be short range to the lower half of the body to set up a finishing strike. The easiest and safest targets are the way to go. Too much risk in turning one's back, being suspended midair, or exposing the groin as one might see in sport. Not that such moves can't occasionally work, but why take the chance when your life is at stake?

This said, it depends on the individual school and how traditional it is. If the instructor doesn't understand the root of the art, or is sport oriented, or just focused on the physical exercise aspect, more emphasis on kicks will be seen. As always, the advice is visit the dojo, watch and question.

 

[opr1945]

For What It Is Worth: From what I have read about Karate development after World War 2 Japan's economy was destroyed. So to make income to support their families many Karate practitioners started opening their teaching to paying students. During the American occupation many of these students were American military with time on their hands. They became the paying students. But they were not interested in traditional conservative Karate practices. As a result they sought the more "flashier" versions of Karate. The instructors began to add flair to their styles. High kicks, back kicks, spinning, etc. all in an effort to attract more students to make more money, i.e. Marketing. The GI's brought this flashier version the the Uniter State when they returned from Japan.

No specific sources, just my general reading. sorry.

 

[Same Trick]

Just after WW-2, the American service men stationed in Okinawa I’m sure learned and practiced just the kicks as found in the traditional katas, on mainland Japan American soldiers stationed there may have entered the dojo’s of Kyokushin-Kai and Goju-Kai, the founders of those styles had tight Korean connection and also perhaps somewhat more experimental in order to suit new(commercial)demands ?styles as Shotokan and Shito-ryu followed suit when their Okinawan founders had passed away..

As for French Savate inspired the Karate kicking arsenal, it might have been so, Savate supposedly mean (old)-shoe, and wearing a sturdy pair of shoes rather than a pair of geta one may dare to throw higher kicks, perhaps a revelation when “modern” shoes came more in use in Japan ?? yes in the dojo one do not wear geta, but traditional karate was meant for “the streets “ if had to be put to use(but how this fit with the jump kicks of the Kushanku katas I have to put more thought into ) , today Karate is basically just a barefoot Dojo and competition activity.

 

[Same Trick]

For What It Is Worth: From what I have read about Karate development after World War 2 Japan's economy was destroyed. So to make income to support their families many Karate practitioners started opening their teaching to paying students. During the American occupation many of these students were American military with time on their hands. They became the paying students. But they were not interested in traditional conservative Karate practices. As a result they sought the more "flashier" versions of Karate. The instructors began to add flair to their styles. High kicks, back kicks, spinning, etc. all in an effort to attract more students to make more money, i.e. Marketing. The GI's brought this flashier version the the Uniter State when they returned from Japan.

No specific sources, just my general reading. sorry.

The couple of months I stayed in Okinawa in the late 1980’s I “payed”(after advised) the teacher of the dojo I practiced at with a few bottles of vodka.

(Ok, that was not desperate financial times)

 

[Haruhiko]

So, does anyone know or have an idea of how many kicks were in the original karate? By original I mean Okinawan Te. I know that when Gichin brought Karate to Japan, there weren't very many kicks and pretty much all below waist. But then his son Gigo added the more flashier kicks, perhaps inspired by Savate. Then, when Shotokan morphed into Tang Soo Do/ Taekwon Do in Korea, more kicks were emphasized to be more in line with traditional Korean kicking methods. As a lifelong practitioner of Korean arts, I am getting over the whole kicking thing, especially as I am post 50. I would like to practice a more traditional art that does not include many kicks. Not boxing and not grappling. So, what is the story on kicks and how they evolved to be such a defining characteristic of Karate?

You're spot on about Okinawan Te having minimal kicks, mostly low and practical, aimed at knees, shins, and groin (this was the most practical for real world application when Okinawa was the Kingdom of Ryukyu). When Funakoshi brought Karate to Japan, it kept that self-defense focus, but Gigo Funakoshi later added higher kicks, likely inspired by arts like Savate. When Karate spread to Korea, it blended with traditional Korean kicking methods, evolving into Taekwondo, which emphasised flashy kicks (marketing, mainly - very long story).

If you're looking for a more traditional, low-kick art, check out Okinawan Goju-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu, or Shorin-Ryu as isolated schools. These styles stick to the old, pragmatic ways and keep kicks minimal. Perfect for post-50 longevity!

As a side note, have you considered Aikido?

 

[Same Trick]

There’s the stories that there was some heated rivalry between the Funakoshi dojo(Shotokan) and the then newly founded kyukushin and Goju-Kai resulting in challenge matches in where Giko Funakoshi and his “team” suffered defeat, upon this some changes was made in the practice in the Funakoshi dojo

 

[Same Trick]

There’s also the story of that when Gigo Funakoshi after a longer stay in Okinawa came back to Tokyo made some changes to his fathers teaching, if it was introduction of higher and flashier kicks the story do not tell