Karate Combat

[CB Jones]

Karate Combat One World is tonight.

 

[CB Jones]

Yes!!!!!!!

Our friend won his fight tonight by Unanimous Decision!

 

[axelb]

I'm catching this now on YouTube.

 

[Mitlov]

I particularly liked the fights at 21:50 and at 54:00. I definitely think it's starting to develop its own unique feel and rhythm, kind of like how Sanda feels dramatically different to watch than K-1.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I particularly liked the fights at 21:50 and at 54:00. I definitely think it's starting to develop its own unique feel and rhythm, kind of like how Sanda feels dramatically different to watch than K-1.

I was really expecting them to apply a variety techniques.

 

[Mitlov]

I was really expecting them to apply a variety techniques.

And...don't you feel that they did? There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways. What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?

 

[JowGaWolf]

And...don't you feel that they did? There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways. What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?

I saw a lot of basic kicks and punches.

I was expecting to see:

• some foot hooks to break the structure.
  
• sweeps
  
• There were times when the opponent came in with punches which actually opens up a person to be kicked in the stomach or in the ribs underneath the punch. So I was looking for some well placed front kicks.
• The blocks that are often performed in karate and tkd forms (I don't know the formal names for them)

I was surprised that there weren't many side kicks or punch kick combos. With the exception of the punch flurries most of it was one kick. one punch type contact.
The guy at the end tried to mix it up a little. If you listen to the commentary, you can hear him say a similar statement, "just throw something out." which was in reference to just throw a technique out with the purpose of opening the opponent.

In my opinion I would say they were too cautious and played it too safe. There were a lot of stalemates going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting any of the fighters down, I just thought I would have seen more technique. Because of the rules, I would have thought that it would be a great opportunity to take some risks that one may not normally take. For example, No uppercuts no knees opens up a lot of opportunity to play in the "danger zone" without punishment or with minimum punishment.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And...don't you feel that they did? There were a number of different punching and kicking techniques strung together in a number of different ways. What exactly were you looking for that you didn't get?

I hope it stays around long enough for fighters to get better at what they do. My guess is that the more they fight the more they will try to use the techniques that that they know.

 

[CB Jones]

In my opinion I would say they were too cautious and played it too safe. There were a lot of stalemates going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting any of the fighters down, I just thought I would have seen more technique. Because of the rules, I would have thought that it would be a great opportunity to take some risks that one may not normally take. For example, No uppercuts no knees opens up a lot of opportunity to play in the "danger zone" without punishment or with minimum punishment.

I disagree. Its a full contact fight against experienced pro fighters...you have to fight smart. Why take unneeded risks? Its a professional fight....its your livelyhood.

Our friend took the last fight on short notice and took it for granted. Went into the fight and "brawled" and got knocked out. Learned that lesson the hard way and probably cost him headlining in New York.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I disagree. Its a full contact fight against experienced pro fighters...you have to fight smart. Why take unneeded risks? Its a professional fight....its your livelyhood.

Our friend took the last fight on short notice and took it for granted. Went into the fight and "brawled" and got knocked out. Learned that lesson the hard way and probably cost him headlining in New York.

Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it. If you don't feel comfortable then you tend to be over cautious. A statement was made by Bas Rutten reflected the same sentiment. We see stalemates like the ones in that video in professional boxing. So being an experienced pro fighter has very little to do with it.

Fighting smart does not always mean stalemating the opponent. That's good for self-defense but not so good for sports competition. You can even hear the ref tell some of the fighters to fight. Sometimes being over cautious is not the same as fighting smart. Sometimes that can get you hurt. Some of them look really stiff and I can guaranteed they will loosen up once they get a few more of these fights in that type of ring under their belts.

Over cautious also doesn't reflect skill level because it's something that fighters of all skill levels do from time to time. Brawling is never good. To me brawling is just going in swinging and hoping to hit something. I rather fight a Brawler any day of the week.

 

[CB Jones]

Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it.

It absolutely does.

If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal. He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.

As a pro you take the chance of losing your sponsorships and being released from your fight contract. Which risk you not being able to pay your bills.

You fight your fight and don’t take unneeded risks just for the sake of taking them.

 

[Mitlov]

Being a Pro fighter has nothing to do with it. If you don't feel comfortable then you tend to be over cautious. A statement was made by Bas Rutten reflected the same sentiment. We see stalemates like the ones in that video in professional boxing. So being an experienced pro fighter has very little to do with it.

Fighting smart does not always mean stalemating the opponent. That's good for self-defense but not so good for sports competition. You can even hear the ref tell some of the fighters to fight. Sometimes being over cautious is not the same as fighting smart. Sometimes that can get you hurt. Some of them look really stiff and I can guaranteed they will loosen up once they get a few more of these fights in that type of ring under their belts.

Over cautious also doesn't reflect skill level because it's something that fighters of all skill levels do from time to time. Brawling is never good. To me brawling is just going in swinging and hoping to hit something. I rather fight a Brawler any day of the week.

Bas Rutten was criticizing two specific fighters in one specific round...not the event as a whole. Likewise, it was those two who were repeatedly urged to fight by the ref, not all the competitors.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It absolutely does.

If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal. He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.

As a pro you take the chance of losing your sponsorships and being released from your fight contract. Which risk you not being able to pay your bills.

You fight your fight and don’t take unneeded risks just for the sake of taking them.

You and I aren't talking about the same risks. You are referring to risks that are associated with stuff you don't know how to do. I'm talking about risks on things you know how to do. Here is how risks are for me. I fight with all usable skill sets and techniques that I can have a high rate of success. Let's say it's 80% - 100% for what I would use in self defense. The closer to 80 the more difficult the technique is for me but the higher the reward if successful. I'm more likely to K.O. someone around the 80%. mark
The 100 % safe technique stuff is the basics. These are things I can easily do and are the things my opponent is most likely familiar with seeing and defending against.

If I want to win then I need to hit my opponent with stuff they aren't used to dealing with. I can use the basics to set things up advanced techniques.

The fact that these guys can knee, do upper cuts, or kick the thighs. Opens up the opportunity to take risks and not get punished for it. IE. ducking and getting punched with an uppercut is highly unlikely because of the rules. Ducking and getting kneed is almost 0% chance because it's not allowed by the rules. If you want to get paid then exploit that rule and use it to your benefit.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Bas Rutten was criticizing two specific fighters in one specific round...not the event as a whole. Likewise, it was those two who were repeatedly urged to fight by the ref, not all the competitors.

Yeah I think I said that. I also mentioned the fighter in the last fight mixing it up more and working his techniques. He also looked more relaxed and not over cautious.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It absolutely does.

If my son takes risks that he would normally not do and loses.....no big deal. He doesn’t get as many points and he gets a smaller trophy.

As a pro you take the chance of losing your sponsorships and being released from your fight contract. Which risk you not being able to pay your bills.

You fight your fight and don’t take unneeded risks just for the sake of taking them.

Professional Muay Thai fighters work their techniques, TKD fighters work their techniques, boxers work their techniques, Professional Point Sparring fighters work their point sparring techniques, BJJ fighters work their technique. The rules for Combat Karate should be more favorable to using various techniques simply because the rules take away the uppercut, kneeing, and double leg take downs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that the fighters aren't good. I'm just saying they should take the opportunity to really open up with a variety of techniques since they won't pay for by eating an elbow, knee, or getting ground and pound for longer than 4 seconds. Nor will you pay for a mistake by having to defend a double leg take down.

 

[CB Jones]

It’s like I tell my son. Figure out your style and what works for you. Listen to advice given but realize that most advice is what works for the advice giver and not necessarily what will work for you.

Take what works discard what doesn’t.

 

[Mitlov]

Professional Muay Thai fighters work their techniques, TKD fighters work their techniques, boxers work their techniques, Professional Point Sparring fighters work their point sparring techniques, BJJ fighters work their technique. The rules for Combat Karate should be more favorable to using various techniques simply because the rules take away the uppercut, kneeing, and double leg take downs.

Of course they work on their technique. But you work on your technique and try stuff out just to see what happens during practice with sparring partners, not just whipping something out to see what happens in an international-televised professional competition. This is true of every combat sport you mentioned, and it's true of Karate Combat as well. Nobody is going to go into an international professional competition and just try throwing kihon-style blocks "to see what happens." Either it's shown promise with sparring partners and they've incorporated it into their game, or it hasn't and they've discarded it*.

* (or more precisely, realized that kihon-style blocks are largely about teaching the principles of effective blocking that every one of them who successfully stopped a powerful kick demonstrated, and look a lot more fluid during sparring then they do during kihon).

But there's a lot more variety than you described. In addition to basic straight punches, there were hooking punches, overhands, front kicks, side kicks, roundhouse kicks, a jump-spin roundhouse kick, spinning back kicks, spinning hook kicks, kicks to the ankle. But they're going to feel out their opponent and to set up those techniques, not just charge in with a cool-looking extended combo, or else they're going to get KOed in the first round for charging in recklessly.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Of course they work on their technique. But you work on your technique and try stuff out just to see what happens during practice with sparring partners, not just whipping something out to see what happens in an international-televised professional competition. This is true of every combat sport you mentioned, and it's true of Karate Combat as well. Nobody is going to go into an international professional competition and just try throwing kihon-style blocks "to see what happens." Either it's shown promise with sparring partners and they've incorporated it into their game, or it hasn't and they've discarded it*.

* (or more precisely, realized that kihon-style blocks are largely about teaching the principles of effective blocking that every one of them who successfully stopped a powerful kick demonstrated, and look a lot more fluid during sparring then they do during kihon).

But there's a lot more variety than you described. In addition to basic straight punches, there were hooking punches, overhands, front kicks, side kicks, roundhouse kicks, a jump-spin roundhouse kick, spinning back kicks, spinning hook kicks, kicks to the ankle. But they're going to feel out their opponent and to set up those techniques, not just charge in with a cool-looking extended combo, or else they're going to get KOed in the first round for charging in recklessly.

You still aren't understanding what I'm saying and what the commentator is saying. ( assuming what ghe commentator issaying). No one is saying just throw anything. But you can throw probing punches and kicks to see how your opponent reacts to the strikes. A kick at the waist can reveal that a person drops their guard or raises their guard, or even jump back. You can then use that feedback to plan your attack for those other techniques that Im referring do. It doesn't mean you are throwing stuff wrecklessly.

You probably haven't seen my other posts about using sparring to learn how to use techniques vs trying to win when sparring. But those comments fall in line with yours about not picking a competition to try something new.

Your fighting effectiveness is greatly reduce when you are tense and your movements don't flow. It doesn't matter if you are sparring or in a full contact fight, this will always be true.

 

[CB Jones]

Really hope organization makes it. Really enjoy watching it. And they have some really high caliber fighters.