Kamatuuran Kali's Baston

[tuturuhan]

1. The counter strikes are designed to devastate the limbs.

2. The footwork allows the kali warrior to travel around the opponent rather than fighting in a straight line.

3. The movements are fluid and continuous.

4. Patience is the key. Dawat...to receive and aborb before the counterstrike you must have confidence.

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[lhommedieu]

Great clip. How much (if any) Ba Gua influence is contained in your art?

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[tuturuhan]

Great clip. How much (if any) Ba Gua influence is contained in your art?

Best,

Steve Lamade

Steve,

Good question...and I don't know how to answer it... But, maybe these videos will help.

walking the circle in Italy:

3 sectional walking the circle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3rNncN4SFQ&mode=related&search=

Sincerely
Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[lhommedieu]

Some Silat has some definite Ba Gua influence ( or is a Ba Gua hybrid) so maybe your art is similar in this regard. Or maybe that's just the way it evolved. Thanks for sharing the clips. There is another one on Youtube of one of your students demonstrating the kampilan, as well, that is very good.

Best,

Steve

 

[tuturuhan]

Steve,

Thank you...if you are ever in the SF Bay Area come by to take a class. Or if I'm in New York giving a seminar stop by.

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[tuturuhan]

1. The counter strikes are designed to devastate the limbs.

2. The footwork allows the kali warrior to travel around the opponent rather than fighting in a straight line.

3. The movements are fluid and continuous.

4. Patience is the key. Dawat...to receive and aborb before the counterstrike you must have confidence.

Guro Genesis and Guro Tom,

A clip of them "freestying" with broadsword, double sticks and single baston:

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Joeseph I enjoyed your video by the way.

However there are a few things that I do not like about your styles movement and it really comes to light when you have to practitioners practicing together. There is alot of times when one pracititioner turns sideways or all the way around where they are in grave jeopardy if it were a real violent encounter. I would be interested in seeing the rational behind this and try to understand why you move in this manner? I am also not trying to put you on the spot as I do see the beauty in your art but I do have this question with regards to what you are doing. Thanks in advance!

 

[tuturuhan]

Joeseph I enjoyed your video by the way.

However there are a few things that I do not like about your styles movement and it really comes to light when you have to practitioners practicing together. There is alot of times when one pracititioner turns sideways or all the way around where they are in grave jeopardy if it were a real violent encounter. I would be interested in seeing the rational behind this and try to understand why you move in this manner? I am also not trying to put you on the spot as I do see the beauty in your art but I do have this question with regards to what you are doing. Thanks in advance!

Brian,

When I first started martial arts at 7, 44 years ago I was told to never turn my back on my opponent...

I learned this technique from Ben Largusa who learned it from Floro Villabrille. Another style that employs this technique is called BaGua. We use the technique for several reasons:

1) The circular footwork allows us to get behind our opponent. When we "turn our backs" it allows us to go to the inside of our opponents and eventually to the their backside. We are simulataneously zoning out opponents so that they can't strike us.

In other words, the opponent strikes with his right hand/weapon/stick...we move inside underneath the umbrella/payong...this accounts for the weapon and being to the side, accounts for the left hand/daga...thus the zoning.

More importantly, it allows us to be "in the eye of the storm" a place where he can't use the length of his weapon.

2) The centrifigal force of the "turning action" creates greater power especially when we use our real weapon "the heavy stick/axe handle. This is analogous to "turning your back when you throw a spinning backfist".

3) The "turning of back" creates "malicia". It is a strategy of hiding the weapon and manipulating the opponent to be unprepared for the unexpected. (for instance, take your knife hold it to your belly with your back to your opponent...he is unaware that you have a knife and he doesn't know what the direction the knife is coming from.)

Of course, I am not here to convince you. Every style has something to offer. But, don't be prejudiced by the dancing...or the seemingly soft nature of the movements. We use extensively dancelike footwork to carry the heavystick/axehandle. People are often fooled by our control and finesse. But, please notice that when I strike I am aiming for specific targets, the wrist, side of head, knee...

Floro Villabrille used to say...you don't want to see a real fight with a "heavy stick". The hand will shatter, and if you hit the side of the head an eye will pop out.

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[tshadowchaser]

thanks for that answer to Brian's question.
Some of what you said makes a lot of sense but I will admit it is scary to turn the back when someone is flailing at me with a weapon.

More importantly, it allows us to be "in the eye of the storm" a place where he can't use the length of his weapon.

true but would not just stepping inside do the same thing?

BTW nice clip thanks

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Brian,

When I first started martial arts at 7, 44 years ago I was told to never turn my back on my opponent...

I learned this technique from Ben Largusa who learned it from Floro Villabrille. Another style that employs this technique is called BaGua. We use the technique for several reasons:

1) The circular footwork allows us to get behind our opponent. When we "turn our backs" it allows us to go to the inside of our opponents and eventually to the their backside. We are simulataneously zoning out opponents so that they can't strike us.

In other words, the opponent strikes with his right hand/weapon/stick...we move inside underneath the umbrella/payong...this accounts for the weapon and being to the side, accounts for the left hand/daga...thus the zoning.

More importantly, it allows us to be "in the eye of the storm" a place where he can't use the length of his weapon.

2) The centrifigal force of the "turning action" creates greater power especially when we use our real weapon "the heavy stick/axe handle. This is analogous to "turning your back when you throw a spinning backfist".

3) The "turning of back" creates "malicia". It is a strategy of hiding the weapon and manipulating the opponent to be unprepared for the unexpected. (for instance, take your knife hold it to your belly with your back to your opponent...he is unaware that you have a knife and he doesn't know what the direction the knife is coming from.)

Of course, I am not here to convince you. Every style has something to offer. But, don't be prejudiced by the dancing...or the seemingly soft nature of the movements. We use extensively dancelike footwork to carry the heavystick/axehandle. People are often fooled by our control and finesse. But, please notice that when I strike I am aiming for specific targets, the wrist, side of head, knee...

Floro Villabrille used to say...you don't want to see a real fight with a "heavy stick". The hand will shatter, and if you hit the side of the head an eye will pop out.

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

Thanks for the answer!

Just trying to get a feel for your system which is hard to do by just watching video clips.

 

[tuturuhan]

Thanks for the answer!

Just trying to get a feel for your system which is hard to do by just watching video clips.

Brian,

You are right. It is very hard to get it from watching. You have to feel it...
and someone has to point out to you "what to look for".


When I was first exposed to kali, all I could tell "from the action" was that the people were moving in circles and waving sticks. It was difficult for me, because of the old beliefs I had formed earlier as a "karate black belt". Old habits die hard. But, I wanted to learn what these guys were doing.

Certainly, my first kali teacher, was not as good as his teacher (Ben Largusa). Most students never become as good as a "true master". I asked him questions about the "fastness of the jab" and I was told that kali's "parry, check, killing blow" concept would be able to defend against it.

To test the assertion, my first teacher put his best student against me to defend against my "boxing jab". When I was finished... "the best student" was cowering with his hands over head. The "parry check, killing blow" concept did not work for him. My first teacher, got angry and yelled at me as he defended his beliefs, "it will work...you just have to practice it". (I being an outsider...thought to myself..."I'll learn your sticks and keep practicising my own "hands")

A few years later, I asked the same questions of the great Ben Largusa, "does the parry check, killiing blow work against the individual jab done as a multiple?" He told me the truth, "No...it won't work!"...

"Instead, you must defend against multiple jabs, as "one entire motion", he continued. Ahhh...now that made sense.

So yes, we must always determine if the technique is "combat efficient". So, your question and opinion is quite valid..."why do you turn your back...and why should that work?"

I tell you this story, because the parry check killing blow did not work for "student" but, with the insight of the Master...it is and can be a tool of destruction. Again, I emphasize that styles such as bagua regularly turn their backs while stepping inside and around to attack the backsides of their opponents. And certainly when you turn back fist or turn back kick you are turning your back. (Interestingly, when I first started martial arts, no one in America had ever seen a turn back spinning hook kick...or a cresant kick...today young people accept those techniques without a second thought).

Lastly, I used to watch a single tape of my teacher, Ben Largusa over and over for years and years. In the beginning, I just couldn't understand what he was doing. Over the years, it started to make sense. The more I could do the technique, the more I understood what he was doing and how I could attain his ability. Today, young people are interested in the "big techniques". They all want to be masters by 25. In fact, they call themselves masters. Instead, they should take the time to analyze, to view the tapes over and over, to see the fine points, 1) sensitivity 2) focus on target 3) ability to blend, absorb and manipulate 4) and if delivered with the full power and speed of the heavy stick/axe handle...the ability to devastate.

Best wishes,
Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola

 

[tuturuhan]

So, how do you grip the weapon? The way you grip the weapon is important to how you focus and control the strike.

1) Most people simply whack with the weapon. They use the power of their muscle to hit as hard as they can. Yet, are they actually doing damage? No...they can't gauge how to increase the velocity or decrease the velocity of the strikes. If they did they would understand "timing". They would know how to regulate the power of the strike to the varied actions of their opponent. In other words, knowing to use the appropriate about of "stroke".

My grandfather was an escrimador that came to Hawaii in 1910. He was a master escrimador and a master pool player. He understood that each stroke must be honed in escrima and in pool. Sometimes you hit very very softly, fluidly and precisely to do damage and sometimes you have no choice but to stroke hard.

2) Most people can't hit with accuracy and focus the major targets of the "head, hands or feet" as they are moving. Most people today, "hit stick against stick" a watered down version of the real thing. Even Remy Presas and Juny Canete talked about how dangerous it was to practice striking directly to the hand. They both decided to use lighter sticks, striking stick against stick, and created the use of armour to make modern FMA into sport.

3) Most people can't "change up" to redirect the strike as their opponent changes his movements. In sport, these guys stand there "whacking" each other never thinking of defense. What if you didn't have armour?

So, what is your grip? I can tell how good you are by how you hold your stick.

Tuhan Joseph T. Oliva Arriola