Kama With Holes in The Blades

[PhotonGuy]

Somehow I get the feeling you missed my point.

So what is your point?

 

[pdg]

Actually, you know what might be fun?

Scythe kata

Well, either 'fun' or 'how do I sew a foot back on?'...

 

[Flying Crane]

So what is your point?

That these tools were not built to withstand heavy combat that the fancy and rigorous kata imply.

Yes, they can be useful self defense tools. They are sharp implements after all.

But the way people like to spin and get a bit crazy with them in a lot of the XMA Type performance kata for example, is so divorce from reality on the very fundamental level that the weapon isn’t even going to withstand that kind of encounter if used against a weapon-weilding opponent.

Realistic use is much calmer and looks for simple and straight-forward applications. And no need to punch holes in the blade to lighten it up for even faster twirling and fancy nonsense, while weakening something that is already not terribly robust.

Also keep in mind that the sharp edge is facing down, which is where your fingers are when you grip the handle. If you block an attack with the top of that blade, it could collapse down and drive that sharp edge right across your fingers. Once again, it is an improvised tool used as a weapon and it has very real inherent weaknesses when used as a weapon. Certain techniques could be useful, while others could be disastrous.

 

[pgsmith]

 

[pdg]

Realistic use is much calmer and looks for simple and straight-forward applications. And no need to punch holes in the blade to lighten it up for even faster twirling and fancy nonsense, while weakening something that is already not terribly robust.

If used in the way I imagine (and how was described earlier) there is actually a decent case for punching holes in the blade to decrease weight.

It's less likely that was commonly done historically though, not from a strength standpoint but from a speed and ease of manufacture one.

They look light enough already, so the gain from less weight would be far outweighed by the cost of added complexity.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(*As an aside the lawnmower wasn't invented to cut grass, it was repurposed from a machine designed for use in the textile industry...)

Are you trying to get me to waste my afternoon in useless research on the provenance of common household tools???

 

[pdg]

Are you trying to get me to waste my afternoon in useless research on the provenance of common household tools???

Yes.

 

[pdg]

Are you trying to get me to waste my afternoon in useless research on the provenance of common household tools???

Oh, and the same person who invented (or rather was inspired to develop) the lawn mower was also the person responsible for the adjustable spanner (credited along with another in the same year).

 

[Flying Crane]

If used in the way I imagine (and how was described earlier) there is actually a decent case for punching holes in the blade to decrease weight.

It's less likely that was commonly done historically though, not from a strength standpoint but from a speed and ease of manufacture one.

They look light enough already, so the gain from less weight would be far outweighed by the cost of added complexity.

Well, the real one that I used in gardening would not have needed any weight reduction. It just is not that heavy a weapon. They are designed for cutting grasses and grains, not trees. The blades are not thick like a hatchet. It is a lightweight implement.

 

[pdg]

Well, the real one that I used in gardening would not have needed any weight reduction. It just is not that heavy a weapon. They are designed for cutting grasses and grains, not trees. The blades are not thick like a hatchet. It is a lightweight implement.

Yes, that's what I meant - it's already light and not built for hitting stuff.

Used for that purpose holes wouldn't significantly weaken it.

But if you're using it all day, a couple of ounces can make a difference.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, that's what I meant - it's already light and not built for hitting stuff.

Used for that purpose holes wouldn't significantly weaken it.

But if you're using it all day, a couple of ounces can make a difference.

Well, yes and no. Given that they are already pretty light, I bet a farmer who was accustomed to hard work and used a kama and other heavier tools regularly would not notice any need to reduce the weight by a couple ounces. For that fellow, it just would not matter, he probably barely notices the weight as it is.

For the Okinawan kobudoka, who is likely also a farmer, he can adopt the kama to martial use with little trouble, and it certainly is not too heavy for him.

For the fourteen year-old XMA proponent who does not engage in hard physical labor and does not work with his hands and does not have that hand and forearm and shoulder strength that comes from such labor, he might feel like it’s too heavy to be as fast and flashy as he wishes. But his needs are artificial. He is taking the kama out of its historical context and turning it into performance art and entertainment, likely divorced from any real martial application, never mind it’s agricultural origins. He is not interested in martial application. He simply wants to do some tricking and the kama is little more than a martially inspired prop.

In a completely artificial scenario like that, well yes, a couple ounces matter. And since the kama will never actually hit or strike or cut a real target, any compromise in the strength of the blade is irrelevant.

As a farming tool, it works by hooking the grain inside the curved blade and giving it a pull, while you grip the grain above with your other hand. If kept sharp, it cuts quite well that way. Hook and pull, that is how you cut with it. It is not designed to strike with the point of the blade, nor to take blocks or other heavy contact across the top or side of the blade. Those kinds of actions will likely damage its seating in the handle and cause it to come apart. Take a look at the kama kata that do not come from Okinawan or Japanese kobudo. How many techniques in those kata look like strikes with the point or blocks on the back of the blade, even if done as a “X” block with two kama? I think it’s a lot, and it shows a lack of understanding of the tool as a weapon. And this is not just the XMA stuff, it’s other methods or schools that adopted the weapon because they wanted a weapon curriculum, without getting quality instruction.

Take a look at proper Okinawan or Japanese kobudo. You see techniques that are clearly “hook and pull” movements. You see striking and blocking techniques that are done with the butt or shaft of the handle and not the blade. That is what makes sense, given the design and construction of the implement.

 

[Flying Crane]

Lots of “hook and pull” cutting movements. Lots of strikes and blocks with the butt or shaft of the handle.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes.

You know, there's a "dislike" button and a "helpful" button. There's no "unhelpful" button...

 

[pdg]

You know, there's a "dislike" button and a "helpful" button. There's no "unhelpful" button...

Piffle.

Without me you wouldn't have access to that exceedingly interesting and useful piece of information that you can now pull out at dinner parties to wow all the other guests with your seemingly encyclopaedic knowledge.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Piffle.

Without me you wouldn't have access to that exceedingly interesting and useful piece of information that you can now pull out at dinner parties to wow all the other guests with your seemingly encyclopaedic knowledge.

I already have a excessive amount of non-informative tripe stashed in my brain for such occasions. Attempting to add more is just gilding the lily.