Kama With Holes in The Blades

[PhotonGuy]

I've seen some high end kama that've got holes in the blade. Any reason why the high end versions have holes in the blade? Does it enhance the performance of the weapon in combat?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I've seen some high end kama that've got holes in the blade. Any reason why the high end versions have holes in the blade? Does it enhance the performance of the weapon in combat?

I asked an old sensei, and was told that it has something to do with wind resistance. I dont even know how to use them though, so no clue if that's true. I would bet it's more for design than anything else, in reality.

Edit: According to the video in this article, its basically just that the holes make it lighter and therefore faster. Not sure if that's accurate, but it makes logical sense.Should My Kama Have Holes? (Exploring Form and Function)

 

[hoshin1600]

Because Americans think it looks cool. We cant appreciate things for what they are. We need to "make them better".
It's a sickle. You wouldn't want to make it lighter, heavier is better for the cut, unless your a circus performer twirling these things around at supper sonic speed, to disco music....then you need them made of aluminum with holes.

 

[Buka]

Because Americans think it looks cool. We cant appreciate things for what they are. We need to "make them better".
It's a sickle. You wouldn't want to make it lighter, heavier is better for the cut, unless your a circus performer twirling these things around at supper sonic speed, to disco music....then you need them made of aluminum with holes.

 

[JR 137]

Because Americans think it looks cool. We cant appreciate things for what they are. We need to "make them better".
It's a sickle. You wouldn't want to make it lighter, heavier is better for the cut, unless your a circus performer twirling these things around at supper sonic speed, to disco music....then you need them made of aluminum with holes.

Can I rate this as “I’m pretty sure you’re right?” I haven’t actually used them and therefore can’t say for certain.

 

[frank raud]

Because Americans think it looks cool. We cant appreciate things for what they are. We need to "make them better".
It's a sickle. You wouldn't want to make it lighter, heavier is better for the cut, unless your a circus performer twirling these things around at supper sonic speed, to disco music....then you need them made of aluminum with holes.

Let's not forget the cool whistling sound they make, which makes it seems the blades are moving faster then they really are.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because you're confused about what "high end" means, I would say. A "high end" weapon isn't going to be punched full of holes that do nothing other than make the blade weak.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Because you're confused about what "high end" means, I would say. A "high end" weapon isn't going to be punched full of holes that do nothing other than make the blade weak.

I think he might mean high-end performance prop.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think he might mean high-end performance prop.

I see it as "expensive junk" personally.

 

[Flying Crane]

You can buy real kama in some hardware and garden supply stores. They are pretty easy to find in cities with a sizeable population of Japanese ancestry.

Ive used them in a gardening scenario. Sharp as hell. I would say though, they are not the most durable construction, meaning they might not hold together for long in a full-contact battlefield secenario, but then again they don’t need to be when used for their original purpose. Do keep in mind that these were agricultural tools first that were then repurposed for a self defense use, which would likely subject them to all kinds of abuse that they were never designed to withstand. Kind of like if I picked up a gardening rake and used it to fight off sword- and spear-wielding bandits. It’s still a rake and that is still how I use it most of the time.

So think about that the next time you do, or watch, a fancy kata with all kinds of spins and hard blocks and crap...

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Reduction of weight is the only thing that jumps to mind.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Do keep in mind that these were agricultural tools first that were then repurposed for a self defense use, which would likely subject them to all kinds of abuse that they were never designed to withstand.

As are many of the weapons that are used in the Japanese martial arts.

Kind of like if I picked up a gardening rake and used it to fight off sword- and spear-wielding bandits. It’s still a rake and that is still how I use it most of the time.

Just as the peasants did in medieval Europe, they fought with their rakes and pitchforks and other farming implements while the knights fought with their swords and lances.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Just going to say, i would opt for a rake over a scythe, given european designs are not the best for actually fighting with and a rake is a pole with a bit of metal on it. (scythes are angled meant to be used on wheat and other grains obviously)

How ever there is a treatise which has scythe that could be used as a weapon, but it was hardly a battlefield thing. It was more niche for the nobles who had a interest in it and how to fight with it. (not 100% it was a specific design or just a normal scythe but i lean towards special scythe) So, i assume Japan could have their version. A scythe made for fighting.


Anyway, passing ramblings on what i have seen for a scythe. ( i will if i remember look for the sources and post them here)

 

[Flying Crane]

As are many of the weapons that are used in the Japanese martial arts.


Just as the peasants did in medieval Europe, they fought with their rakes and pitchforks and other farming implements while the knights fought with their swords and lances.

Somehow I get the feeling you missed my point.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Just going to say, i would opt for a rake over a scythe, given european designs are not the best for actually fighting with and a rake is a pole with a bit of metal on it. (scythes are angled meant to be used on wheat and other grains obviously)

How ever there is a treatise which has scythe that could be used as a weapon, but it was hardly a battlefield thing. It was more niche for the nobles who had a interest in it and how to fight with it. (not 100% it was a specific design or just a normal scythe but i lean towards special scythe) So, i assume Japan could have their version. A scythe made for fighting.


Anyway, passing ramblings on what i have seen for a scythe. ( i will if i remember look for the sources and post them here)

No clue which one I would prefer, since I don't honestly I would break them and use them as two short sticks. But, keep in mind that rakes from back then probably weren't made thick enough to withstand a whole bunch of hits. No need to worry about then when raking something.

 

[pdg]

scythes are angled meant to be used on wheat and other grains obviously

Not that obviously, unless you've never handled one - or different types of scythe.

Some were built for reaping, but going at a field of grain with mine would be hard work - because it's more toward a grass scythe, designed for mowing.

What do you think was used to maintain bowling greens and lawns before the lawnmower was invented*?

The scythe.

Most people don't know how a scythe was designed to be used either - it's commonly assumed you cut a swathe the length of the blade (like say using a meat cleaver, or an axe), but that's utterly wrong. It's a slicing tool where you run along the blade, not into it (more like a carving knife, or slicing with a sword).

Someone well practiced in it's use would be able to use it very effectively in an offensive or defensive fashion.



(*As an aside the lawnmower wasn't invented to cut grass, it was repurposed from a machine designed for use in the textile industry...)

 

[pdg]

No clue which one I would prefer, since I don't honestly I would break them and use them as two short sticks. But, keep in mind that rakes from back then probably weren't made thick enough to withstand a whole bunch of hits. No need to worry about then when raking something.

From my experience, the older the rake the heavier and stronger it's built.

Before mass production, it took as much effort to build a light, weak rake as to build a strong one, and reputations were built on quality instead of price.

So, if you built something strong that lasted well you sold more, because tools weren't disposable like they are now.

These days you buy something cheap and replace it when it breaks - days gone by you bought something expecting it to last. That's why I still have tools my grandfather bought second hand between the wars...

 

[pdg]

It's a sickle. You wouldn't want to make it lighter, heavier is better for the cut

Depends - how are (were) they intended to be used and on what?

If like a pull hook / rip hook, where you tuck it behind something and pull through then you need structural strength which holes would detract from but more weight isn't required.

If more of a slicing scythe type action, rigidity is less of a concern, and more weight increases fatigue in use.

The only time weight becomes a real advantage is if it's used more like an axe to chop - but isn't the cutting edge facing inward?

 

[hoshin1600]

Depends - how are (were) they intended to be used and on what?

If like a pull hook / rip hook, where you tuck it behind something and pull through then you need structural strength which holes would detract from but more weight isn't required.

If more of a slicing scythe type action, rigidity is less of a concern, and more weight increases fatigue in use.

The only time weight becomes a real advantage is if it's used more like an axe to chop - but isn't the cutting edge facing inward?

Since I didn't grow up in 1890,s Okinawa I could be wrong but my thinking is that the kama was a hand tool used in the rice paddies to cut the stocks. This means a couple of things, you were knee deep in mud and bent over at the waist. Reaching down with one hand to gather and then use the other hand with the kama to cut the stocks. Very repetitive action with a short handle tool. I believe the weight would be needed like a hammer as opposed to long blade grass cutters that are used standing upright where gravity can be harnessed with long strokes.
Short handle tools rely on the correct weight. Too little weight with high repetitive action means your using muscle rather than letting the tool do the work.

EDIT:
well I need to correct myself. I just watched Youtube on Asian rice. After watching the harvest, my initial thoughts were wrong. The paddies are dry at harvest and watching the use of the kama it is indeed a quick action. The hook blade is used to gather up a section, the left hand grabs the bunch and the blade is pulled into and across the stocks. Initially I was thinking there would be more arm action but it's not. So the blade in actual use is very small and thin weight is not needed. The design i watched in use was a bit different then the Okinawan kama. The kama has a much wider blade.

 

[pdg]

So the blade in actual use is very small and thin weight is not needed. The design i watched in use was a bit different then the Okinawan kama. The kama has a much wider blade.

The wider blade allows it to be thinner and more efficient for slicing while retaining enough rigidity to not flop about.

Compare to an axe for chopping or an adze for digging - a smaller but thicker blade for strength and weight.