Just what is unamerican?

[Touch Of Death]

Cobra brought up and interesting point. He was quite vague however; so, I thought I might ask what, exactly, is unamerican? Be specific.
Sean :asian:

 

[loki09789]

Where can we find the foundation for what is "American" before we move into 'unAmerican' first off? If it is going to be a compare/contrast discussion then it needs to be clear what it is to be "American" as well.

I know the Constitution/Bill of Rights stuff outlines what American's are suppose to be allowed to do without fear of the black suits kicking down the door or being executed on the spot, but I just got done saying the "Pledge" again this morning and I think it bears examination for this discussion as well. This is not a challenge by any means, but how many folks out there still remember it since they have left school. Honestly, it took a little bit to get it back to memorized when I got into teaching because it had been so long .

 

[Tgace]

People who take from this nation, be it from public assistance or just plain living one of the best lifestyles on the globe, yet having no sense of duty, obligation or pride towards it.

 

[michaeledward]

Where can we find the foundation for what is "American" before we move into 'unAmerican' first off? If it is going to be a compare/contrast discussion then it needs to be clear what it is to be "American" as well.

Well, I think this is a good starting point to consider what it means to be an 'American'.

The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The language suffers a little for 200 plus years of use, but I think that sums it up. Americans can see and understand howthis little introduction to the Declaration of Independence calls us to responsibility and duty.

Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

Where can we find the foundation for what is "American" before we move into 'unAmerican' first off? If it is going to be a compare/contrast discussion then it needs to be clear what it is to be "American" as well.

I know the Constitution/Bill of Rights stuff outlines what American's are suppose to be allowed to do without fear of the black suits kicking down the door or being executed on the spot, but I just got done saying the "Pledge" again this morning and I think it bears examination for this discussion as well. This is not a challenge by any means, but how many folks out there still remember it since they have left school. Honestly, it took a little bit to get it back to memorized when I got into teaching because it had been so long .

Hows that last part go? ... With liberty and justice for all who can afford it.
Sean

 

[OULobo]

Umm. . . not watching baseball, detesting apple pie, and hating your own mother. :idunno:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Umm. . . not watching baseball, detesting apple pie, and hating your own mother. :idunno:

Can I help it if Baseball is boring?

 

[MA-Caver]

Well, I think this is a good starting point to consider what it means to be an 'American'.


The language suffers a little for 200 plus years of use, but I think that sums it up. Americans can see and understand howthis little introduction to the Declaration of Independence calls us to responsibility and duty.

Mike

Yes, yes it does... so... how come we're not doing it??

(I got quite a few more pennies on this topic but run out of time for proper dispensation... more later)

 

[heretic888]

As far as I'm concerned, "un-American" just means "not an American citizen". End of story. I doubt you'd hear a lot of people in England seeing somebody playing American football in their backyard, and complain he's being "un-British". Its inane and dim-witted to a zenith.

Really, now, one of the POINTS for the existence of the United States is "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" --- that means I am free to live my life and express myself however the hell I damn choose to, provided I am not endangering or violating the rights of others to do likewise.

Thus, wouldn't logic dictate that by aritificially imposing on America's sovereign citizens a "true American" lifestyle they are supposed to follow, that one is the very definition of a hypocrite??

Of course, as an American --- it is also your right to be just that. That's the beauty of it.

Buddha bless America. :asian:

 

[loki09789]

Well, with the number of Stanley Cups taken by US teams, I think watching any of the Big 3 sports would be "American" as long as you ignore the subliminal advertising about which car to by or diet soda to drink....

Seriously, I agree with the call to duty aspect of "American", but there is a reasonable balance between making personal sacrifices and sacrificing the personal rights. Generally I think that the current/popular view of being "American" is one of 'personal individual expression and civil rights' and tends to neglect the service and duty portion. Consider how the Americorp movement could/is a reactionary movement to try and spur a sense of "It takes a village" view on our local and national issues again. I am not a Billary fan, but I do agree with the idea that we have to each pitch in and get our hands dirty every once in a while.

I think the modern cynicism makes joining in or patrioticism as popular an idea as cultism or religiousness. We tend to live in an age of 'me-ism' from what I see.

 

[MisterMike]

It's not so much un-Americans you have to look out for, it's anti-Americans.

People can still hang on to their heritage, be it Italian, French, German, etc. You don't have to throw all that away and start eating McDonalds just because you live here.

It's doing the opposite, like giving more power to government, less responsibilities left for the people. Stuff like high taxes and socialist programs like Universal Health Care.

 

[heretic888]

I think the modern cynicism makes joining in or patrioticism as popular an idea as cultism or religiousness. We tend to live in an age of 'me-ism' from what I see.

Hee. I call it flatland.

No depth, no layers, no substance. Just surfaces, surfaces, surfaces, as far as the eye can see.

But, hey, its okay, right?? I mean, after all, if everything is "reduced" and "flattened", then everything is equal, right?? We can't have one viewpoint actually being "better" or "more valid" than another --- that'd just be fascist, right??

And, as no other viewpoint is more valid than another in this anemic wasteland we call a "culture", that means nobody can tell me what to do (as they're no more right than I am) --- the individual ego is thus sovereign of all it witnesses.

Boomeritis beckons.

 

[someguy]

Umm. . . not watching baseball, detesting apple pie, and hating your own mother. :idunno:

You forgot hamburgers.

 

[heretic888]

It's doing the opposite, like giving more power to government, less responsibilities left for the people.

Funny. I was under the impression that our Constitutional institutions posited a BALANCE of power in all domains, even between the people and the State. Silly me.

Also, following the thread of logic you are relying on above, then a national anarchy is the idealized state form for the United States --- not a democracy.

Stuff like high taxes and socialist programs like Universal Health Care.

Ah yes, providing health care for all our underpriveleged citizens. That would truly be an "unamerican" agenda.

'Watch out fer dem damn commies!!'

 

[Touch Of Death]

It's not so much un-Americans you have to look out for, it's anti-Americans.

People can still hang on to their heritage, be it Italian, French, German, etc. You don't have to throw all that away and start eating McDonalds just because you live here.

It's doing the opposite, like giving more power to government, less responsibilities left for the people. Stuff like high taxes and socialist programs like Universal Health Care.

Why is universal health care unamerican?

 

[loki09789]

Hee. I call it flatland.

No depth, no layers, no substance. Just surfaces, surfaces, surfaces, as far as the eye can see.

But, hey, its okay, right?? I mean, after all, if everything is "reduced" and "flattened", then everything is equal, right?? We can't have one viewpoint actually being "better" or "more valid" than another --- that'd just be fascist, right??

And, as no other viewpoint is more valid than another in this anemic wasteland we call a "culture", that means nobody can tell me what to do (as they're no more right than I am) --- the individual ego is thus sovereign of all it witnesses.

Boomeritis beckons.

How dare you imply that your devotion to an education, a deeper and more sophisticated understanding of yourself and world views current and historic would make your points/opinions more valid than MINE! That is elitist.... oh, wait a second, I have a degree too (albeit only a B.S. - NO JOKES) that was required to make my statements and actions more valid than someone w/o that level of training within my trade.... I think the term is 'cultural collateral'? The more you have the more you can do.

I love the confusion of people between 'fair' and 'equal'

My brain hurts now....

 

[MisterMike]

Why is universal health care unamerican?

In my estimation, if the governement forces other people to pay for your health care, it is anti-American as well.

Everyone is certainly entitled to think differntly of course.

Where this will become a bigger problem is when the rest of the country has to pay for healthcare for all the illegals flooding into the country thru Mexico.

The America I like to think of is one where you could go out and stake some land, build on it, and live off of it yourself. It was up to you if you helped your neighbor. Not all this communist crap.

 

[Tgace]

Kind of a tangent but...the "underpriveleged" American is an interesting point. While there are many "poor" in our nation, the definition is a matter of comparison. I deal with many who by our standards are "poor" but still have cable TV, Cars (beaters granted), and coke in the fridge. While touring the globe in uniform, I got to see what Poor really is. Many Americans dont appreciate how well we really have it here.

 

[loki09789]

Kind of a tangent but...the "underpriveleged" American is an interesting point. While there are many "poor" in our nation, the definition is a matter of comparison. I deal with many who by our standards are "poor" but still have cable TV, Cars (beaters granted), and coke in the fridge. While touring the globe in uniform, I got to see what Poor really is. Many Americans dont appreciate how well we really have it here.

What he said....only from lower to the ground.

 

[Tgace]

Not only do they not appreciate it, some openly say that they detest it.....