just trying to start a discussion

[cwk]

There hasn't been much discussion on here the last few days so I thought I'd just try to get one started. As my mind was blank, I thought I'd just put up a link to a clip i saw recently and enjoyed and hope it raises some sort of discussion.
hope you enjoy.

 

[Poor Uke]

Nice clip but was it just me or did the guy in yellow keep pulling his punches?

 

[graychuan]

I think both guys were skilled. Only critique I have is that the guy in the yellow lets his elbow drop on his tan-sao. I saw it 2-3 times. They guy in the white also took advantage of this because he clearly attacked the elbows and took yellow's corner a lot. Other than this it was relaxed, non-egotistical chi-sao play.

 

[CRCAVirginia]

The gentleman in White was far superior, just playing with the student.

 

[cwk]

The gentleman in White was far superior, just playing with the student.

He was doing it in a non egotistical way though which I think is what I like about the clip. I like Wong Nim Yi Sifu's clips. For me, he really does a good job of always being totally relaxed. A lot clips you see on the internet have someone talking all about being relaxed and then they demonstrate something and it's totally the opposite.

 

[cwk]

I think both guys were skilled. Only critique I have is that the guy in the yellow lets his elbow drop on his tan-sao. I saw it 2-3 times.

I noticed his elbows too, and it's not only when he does tan sao. It could have something to do with the way his Sifu is playing it though. It seems like Wong Nim Yi is just sitting back and defending, playing with him, making it hard to find a line of attack and this might be frustrating for him. Frustration can lead to lots of mistakes not least of all tensing up.

 

[matsu]

from my very inexperienced eyes i saw a very chilled chi sau. i think yellow top didnt so much pull his punches but realised the attack wasnt there-mr white top out maneuvered him or broke his angle just enough to nulify.
again i saw very low tan and bong and very wide elbows which i think is a good thing that i can see some of these things, that must mean i,m learning something right??

matsu

 

[cwk]

from my very inexperienced eyes i saw a very chilled chi sau. i think yellow top didnt so much pull his punches but realised the attack wasnt there-mr white top out maneuvered him or broke his angle just enough to nulify.
again i saw very low tan and bong and very wide elbows which i think is a good thing that i can see some of these things, that must mean i,m learning something right??

matsu

I can usually spot mistakes in videos. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop me from making the exact same bloody mistakes myself!

 

[matsu]

yeah mate...know what you mean.
and that is def not just an armchair critic speaking either!
wen i,m doing something-rolling or sparring etc i,m now at the stage where i can see i just missed an opportunity or a gap but didnt have the skill or timing to take advantage....i,m hoping that means i,m getting better or at least more aware.
ill keep plugging away untill i get the skills to actually do something at the right time.

i was rolling last last and i was concentrating so much on my forward energy and positioning that i couldnt make the attack or the block,fustrating as hell but i,m so far behind the guys i was training with.
i touched hands with a guy today for nearly 2 hours and he was immensly helpful-learnt a lot.,....and much to the GF's disgust im going to class in about an hour :angel:
matsu

 

[cwk]

wen i,m doing something-rolling or sparring etc i,m now at the stage where i can see i just missed an opportunity or a gap

yeah, this happens to me a lot too. I know what my problem is..lack of chi sao practice. I train it once or twice a week with my regular training partner but apart from that, there's absolutely no chance of me getting anymore as there are no chunners where I live.
It sucks. big time.

 

[melry88]

Wong Nim Yi - is a true master of the art. I enjoyed watching how he remains relaxed and calm even when his student is on the offensive.

I find myself struggling to remain relaxed when my partner is pressing in with an attack, but again this will come with time and experience.

The big thing is being able to take what you learn from chi sao and apply it to the streets.

I hope you guys all have a good week!

Regards....

 

[matsu]

I'm going to have to google/YouTube him to c if I can learnmore
any more clips of him please guys
matsu

 

[graychuan]

What about this clip....Fo-Shan seems to be a non-Yip Man(Hong Kong) line...

 

[matsu]

not sure how i feel about that clip gray old bean!
its so unlike how we are taught that i think i can see opportunities for me to strike through but videos are deceptive and untill i actually touched hands i certainly wouldnt make any negative comments about the clip.
i would like to expericnce this type of chi sau to see if i can learn from it.
thanks for showing.
matsu

 

[melry88]

That one has to be one of the worse showings I have seen. This has nothing to do with Master Wong Nim Yi or any of the other true Wing Chun masters in China.

Here is a good one of different lineages of Wing Chun in China. I see Master Mak Yu Ming in the background.

If you want to see chi sao differently than the typical rolling check out Weng Chun. They will not always roll from tan to bong sao, but will stay in tan since there is no need to roll and turn you stance to bong if you partner is not pressing in. I different through process than ours (Ip Man Hong Kong lineages). I watched Sergio and Master Sunny So do this and Sunny was all over him every time he rolled to bong.

Here is a two man set with Sunny So and Master Tang Chueng Pak.

Good stuff.

Best....

 

[graychuan]

That one has to be one of the worse showings I have seen. This has nothing to do with Master Wong Nim Yi or any of the other true Wing Chun masters in China.

Here is a good one of different lineages of Wing Chun in China. I see Master Mak Yu Ming in the background.

If you want to see chi sao differently than the typical rolling check out Weng Chun. They will not always roll from tan to bong sao, but will stay in tan since there is no need to roll and turn you stance to bong if you partner is not pressing in. I different through process than ours (Ip Man Hong Kong lineages). I watched Sergio and Master Sunny So do this and Sunny was all over him every time he rolled to bong.

Here is a two man set with Sunny So and Master Tang Chueng Pak.

Good stuff.

Best....

I've seen the both of these and I will have to disagree on this one. I've also said myself that unless you actually feel the energy involved its hard to say what is really going on in a video clip, but I still see something that can be learned from the video in my first post....these two here(especially the first one) I don't see it so much as chi-sao than as two guys trying to spar from a chi sao platform.

 

[Vajramusti]

What about this clip....Fo-Shan seems to be a non-Yip Man(Hong Kong) line...

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Not my cup of tea.

joy chaudhuri

 

[zepedawingchun]

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Not my cup of tea.

joy chaudhuri

Ditto.

 

[matsu]

graychuan... i agree.
its a sparring battle with no form or shapes just a determination to get the hit in at the expense of, well nothing in some of those clips.
a nice ego trip to get the strike in and even when they get clipped on the way in they seem to think it was worth it.
very aggressive chi sau tho!

matsu

 

[melry88]

Graychun - I agree with you on energy, but we are taught in our lineage to have "structure". It looks to me as they are so light and flopping around that there is no real structure in your Foshan post. If there is no structure then the technique will fail and you will get hit.

I agree that chi sao is not a slap match/point match, because people will get accustomed to taking a hit to give a hit. All it takes is getting hit once and you may be out of the fight all together.

With that said I posted videos above because Foshan Wing Chun chi sao looked different to me than what you had posted. If you take a look at the original post about Wong Nim Yi you can see structure and how the structure can be used while relaxed.

Just my .02

Respectfully,

Melry88